Origin > Dangerous Futures > Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
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    Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
by   Ray Kurzweil

Responding to the Presidential Bioethics Council report, "Beyond Therapy," Ray Kurzweil has written a keynote statement for the Extropy Institute's Vital Progress Summit, an Internet virtual discussion and debate.


Published on Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit site and KurzweilAI.net, February 18, 2004

Technology has always been a double-edged sword, bringing us longer and healthier life spans, freedom from physical and mental drudgery, and many new creative possibilities on the one hand, while introducing new and salient dangers on the other. Technology empowers both our creative and destructive natures. Genetic engineering is in the early stages of enormous strides in reversing disease and aging processes.

Ubiquitous nanotechnology, now about two decades away, will continue an exponential expansion of these benefits. These technologies will create extraordinary wealth, thereby overcoming poverty, and enabling us to provide for all of our material needs by transforming inexpensive raw materials and information into virtually any type of product. Lingering problems from our waning industrial age will be overcome. We will be able to reverse remaining environmental destruction.

Nanoengineered fuel cells and solar cells will provide clean energy. Nanobots in our physical bodies will destroy pathogens, remove debris such as misformed proteins and protofibrils, repair DNA, and reverse aging. We will be able to redesign all of the systems in our bodies and brains to be far more capable and durable. And that's only the beginning.

There are also salient dangers. The means and knowledge exists in a routine college bioengineering lab to create unfriendly pathogens more dangerous than nuclear weapons. Unrestrained nanobot replication ("unrestrained" being the operative word here) would endanger all physical entities, biological or otherwise. As for "unfriendly" AI, that's the most daunting challenge of all because intelligence is inherently the most powerful force in the Universe.


Awareness of these dangers has resulted in calls for broad relinquishment. Bill McKibben, the environmentalist who was one of the first to warn against global warming, takes the position that we have sufficient technology and that further progress should end. In his latest book titled "Enough: Staying Human in an Engineered Age," he metaphorically compares technology to beer and writes that "one beer is good, two beers may be better; eight beers, you're almost certainly going to regret." McKibben's metaphor comparing continued engineering to gluttony misses the point, and ignores the extensive suffering that remains in the human world, which we will be in a position to alleviate through sustained technological progress.

Another level of relinquishment, one recommended in Bill Joy's Wired magazine cover story, would be to forego certain fields--nanotechnology, for example--that might be regarded as too dangerous. But such sweeping strokes of relinquishment are equally untenable. Nanotechnology is simply the inevitable end result of the persistent trend towards miniaturization that pervades all of technology. It is far from a single centralized effort, but is being pursued by a myriad of projects with many diverse goals.

Abandonment of broad areas of technology will only push them underground, where development would continue unimpeded by ethics and regulation. In such a situation, it would be the less-stable, less-responsible practitioners (e.g., terrorists) who would have all the expertise.

The siren calls for broad relinquishment are effective because they paint a picture of future dangers as if they were released on today's unprepared world. The reality is that the sophistication and power of our defensive technologies and knowledge will grow along with the dangers. When we have "gray goo" (unrestrained nanobot replication), we will also have "blue goo" ("police" nanobots that combat the "bad" nanobots). The story of the 21st century has not yet been written, so we cannot say with assurance that we will successfully avoid all misuse. But the surest way to prevent the development of the defensive technologies would be to relinquish the pursuit of knowledge in broad areas. This was the primary moral of the novel Brave New World.

Consider software viruses. We have been able to largely control harmful software virus replication because the requisite knowledge is widely available to responsible practitioners. Attempts to restrict this knowledge would have created a far less stable situation. Responses to new challenges would have been far slower, and it is likely that the balance would have shifted towards the more destructive applications (that is, the software pathogens). Stopping the "GNR" technologies is not feasible, at least not without adopting a totalitarian system, and pursuit of such broad forms of relinquishment will only distract us from the vital task in front of us. In terms of public policy, the task at hand is to rapidly develop the defensive steps needed, which include ethical standards, legal standards, and defensive technologies. It is quite clearly a race. There is simply no alternative. We cannot relinquish our way out of this challenge.

There have been useful proposals for protective strategies, such as Ralph Merkle's "broadcast" architecture, in which replicating entities need to obtain replication codes from a secure server. We need to realize, of course, that each level of protection will only work to a certain level of sophistication.

The "meta" lesson here is that we will need to place society's highest priority during the 21st century on continuing to advance the defensive technologies and to keep them one or more steps ahead of destructive misuse. In this way, we can realize the profound promise of these accelerating technologies, while managing the peril.

   
 

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Mind·X Discussion About This Article:

What is Ray responding to?
posted on 02/18/2004 2:50 PM by normdoering

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What exactly is Ray addressing here? Bill McKibben and Bill Joy's Wired magazine article? What do they have to do with the Presidential Bioethics Council report, "Beyond Therapy" ??

I haven't had time to read everything at the Presidential Bioethics site, http://bioethics.gov, but I did read a section on stem cell research called "Ethics of Human Stem Cell Research" which featured the thoughts of Dr. Gene Outka and Leon Kass. These two have views explicitly grounded in what I consider superstitious nonsense: religion. Outka makes statements like "...to conduct research on embryos that creates them in order to destroy them clashes directly with the judgment that entities conceived have irreducible value" and "...that once conceived each entity is a form of primordial human life that should exert a claim upon us to be regarded as an end and not a mere means only." Why? Should I not swat and kill mosquitoes also because they have biological end for taking my blood? Outka also says "...it is another thing to instrumentalize embryos through and through when what we intend in the actions we perform exhaustively concerns benefits to third-parties." Why does an embryonic stem cell deserve any rights at all? Why shouldn't we "instrumentalize embryos through and through" ? Since when do the rights of embryos have any claim over those of living, breathing "third-parties?" Those third-parties are us and our loved ones. Should we also grant rights to mosquitoes over the minor inconvenience of an itchy bite they cause third parties?

They argue that embryos have "irreducible value" but value to who? They mean "value to God." If an embryo is not wanted it has little value to us human beings, we can always make more than we need. Their human value is not "irreducible," Their value is what they cost to produce. Isn't it our human values that dictate our rights?

Don't we have enough scientific data to assert that it's the human brain that is the source of our essential rights and values? It's the human brain that concieves them and desires them. Isn't everything medical science does ultimately for the health of brains? When a person is brain dead we shut off life support, if, like Christopher Reeve, everything else is damaged and cut off, it's the brain we work to preserve.

Can non-thinking things have rights?

Re: What is Ray responding to?
posted on 02/18/2004 8:28 PM by grantcc

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In his time as president, G.W. Bush has sent bombs, airplanes and troops to kill hundreds of thousands of people in the Middle East. Now he has the audacity to interfere with the march of science in defence of life that doesn't exist yet as a viable entity. What does he value more, a living, breathing human or a blastocist? This is the danger of religion, in my view. It's all built around emotion and faith rather than logic and reason. Now the president of the U.S. is proselytizing his own personal religion from the Oval Office. Where is the separation of church and state guaranteed us in the Constitution? The whole issue makes no sense to me.

Re: What is Ray responding to?
posted on 02/18/2004 10:45 PM by normdoering

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Are you going to vote for John Kerry?

I am.

http://forum.johnkerry.com

Re: What is Ray responding to?
posted on 02/19/2004 10:56 AM by grantcc

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Anybody But Bush and the team of people he brought into the government on his coat tails.

Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/19/2004 4:09 PM by subtillioN

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This seems a key problem...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/19/scientis ts.bush.ap/index.html

Scientists: Bush administration distorts research

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush's administration distorts scientific findings and seeks to manipulate experts' advice to avoid information that runs counter to its political beliefs, a private organization of scientists asserted on Wednesday.



The Union of Concerned Scientists contended in a report that "the scope and scale of the manipulation, suppression and misrepresentation of science by the Bush administration is unprecedented."

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/19/2004 6:32 PM by normdoering

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Isn't distorting science rather common for religious believers?

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/19/2004 7:06 PM by Ribald

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It is unfortunately common among believers in anything. Including believers in "scientific" belief systems.

We are at a point where "spin" is endemic to science and politics both. There is in fact a "politics" of science now, as well as a "science" of politics.

Sad state of affairs.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/19/2004 8:24 PM by normdoering

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Good point. It hit me when you said spin that even this Kurzweil site is basically a spin for A.I. and nanotech.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/19/2004 8:46 PM by Ribald

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Just so. I now hesitate to throw stones in this regard, because I realize what my house is made of... :-)

At least in some areas....

I think part of what is at issue is different frames of reference literally lead to different perceptions of reality. Unfortunately this is not limited to the uneducated. In fact, it is even more difficult to deal with in the very intelligent because they are so darn good at supporting their rationale in a logical and eloquent fashion.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/19/2004 9:42 PM by subtillioN

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I think part of what is at issue is different frames of reference literally lead to different perceptions of reality.


In Bush's case I am pretty sure it was a deliberate distortion of the truth. They knew better, but they have their own hidden agenda's. Since this is sort of a democracy they have to make sure they get the will of the people on their side so they manipulate it with misinformation.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/19/2004 10:32 PM by normdoering

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You sound like a "militant agnostic" could you some up your frame of reference as: "I don't know and neither do you." ??

I'm not really certain of anything that gets spun but I feel pretty damn sure about some things, my atheism, my naturalist and materialist views, what makes good art, what makes a good movie and how long a good cup of tea should be brewed.

Other things I'm not so sure about, can tax cuts for the rich really boost the economy and increase tax revenue? How does that work? Doesn't sound reasonable to me. Isn't there a limited supply of money printed up by the government? Does Kurzweil got his time frame for the A.I. singularity right and accelerating technological progress? He makes a good argument.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 11:03 AM by Ribald

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Hmmmm... "militant agnostic"... I like that! Stop having opinions, all of you!!! hahaha

But somewhat more seriously, I guess my frame of reference would be that my experience is that as a whole belief systems can not proven or disproven (in the scientific sense), and are therefore opinion.

I, like every other human being on the planet, suspect that my opinions are probably correct. However, I am secure enough in my own thinking that I am ok with others having a conflicting view. I don't feel threatened by disagreement, and suspect that those that do are not so confident in their own conclusions. Otherwise they should be able to consider new viewpoints and decise whether or not they agree without rancor.

What really bothers me are others that insist I adopt their opinion or outlook. The typical approach nowadays is to spin it so that you are a really bad person if you do not think "such and such".

I am tired of the moral posturing on both sides of the American political system. You see constant cases of principle applied only in support of a political alignment. Hypocrisy in my opinion.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 11:44 AM by subtillioN

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I think you have spin too thin a web. You see heated debate as a bad thing, but I see its merits. What it almost never accomplishes is a forced conversion of someone to a new way of thinking. But what it acheives quite often is a clearer idea of the differences between the competing ideas. This can never be a bad thing and in the area of science there is a serious deficiency in tools to make a rational judgement between competing theories. The theories are too complex to learn without serious investment of time and without learning them they can't be seen and compared with one another. This is why spin is so important. It is a vector to enable new ideas to get past healthy immune systems. Evolution has purposes beyond those of human desires. We fight for our beliefs on behalf of evolution.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 12:16 PM by subtillioN

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It is when spin turns into misinformation that we get into trouble and there is little in the way of making this distinction clear.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 3:27 PM by Ribald

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I agree that debate is a good thing, I am most certainly not arguing against it as a tool for consensus in decision making.

But only if the debate is about the facts, rather than about the perceived moral or intellectual lacking of the person with the other viewpoint.

When a decision is to be made, that justifies defense of ones position as it relates to the matter under consideration.

There is no justification for attempts at forcing ones opinion on others in relation to personal belief systems.

There is an old quote I have heard attributed to Ben Franklin (but I don't claim that is accurate), which is paraphrased as: "my rights stop at the end of your nose".

The problem that I have with liberals and conservatives is that they both frame things such that you either believe as they do or are a bad person. Their tactics are virtually identical, which makes it laughable when they take superior moral postures.

That aside, there is a long history of referring to statistics and studies as "proof" of a position, even though most studies don't prove causal relationships.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 3:59 PM by subtillioN

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I agree, the point of debate is to present the logic of both sides so that rational minds can decide for themselves. It is not about forcing anyone to believe anything and such a thing is essentially impossible. Belief itself should not be the goal as that is the root of the problem. We make up our own minds about such things and hopefully we can do it based on a rational decision. The best we can do is to help someone see our side as clearly as possible in order to make an informed decision.

The problem is where belief and science get entangled (no pun intended) especially in the realm of cosmology and origins etc. These belief systems, incorporated into governmental science and technology policies, stop the development of science and technology as a whole...and the population suffers as a result.

Throughout the biosphere there is a struggle between homeostasis and mutagenesis. This is reflected in the social sphere in the struggle between belief and change; conservatives and radicals; paradigms and paradigm shifts, and so on and so on. There seems to be a quantum nature in all energy transformation systems, whether it be social or electrical.

When we see stagnation and rot being enabled and even supported unwillingly through the use of misinformation for the maintenance of homeostasis by the control structure, it is our duty as mutagenic agents to enact whatever change we can manage. We the people are the immune system of the organism and we decide which control structure is a virus and which is not. If the control sructure tricks our defense mechanisms through the spread of misinformation then it is not acting in our best interest and we must take action to correct the illness.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 4:45 PM by Ribald

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The best we can do is to help someone see our side as clearly as possible in order to make an informed decision.


Unfortunately, in my opinion, the majority of the American population adopts opinions based upon credibility or alignment criteria, rather than examining information and forming their own opinion.

So what we see are large masses of people adopting opinions because of who offered it, or because they believe they SHOULD believe a certain way to be a "good person".

Far too often complicated matters are left up to "experts" to "explain" to the public. That means that the public is actually asking for someone to frame it in terms that do not require understanding!

Sad. But I don't know what to do other than encourage our youth to question and be skeptical as they earn their education. Too many "shrink-wrap" opinions out there.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 6:24 PM by subtillioN

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I couldn't agree more!!!!

(^_^)

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 4:08 PM by subtillioN

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That aside, there is a long history of referring to statistics and studies as "proof" of a position, even though most studies don't prove causal relationships.


Oh yes. That is a big factor and whole fields of science can be supported erroneously by the pre-interpretation and noise-selection criteria used to select and fine-tune the experimental set-ups and to choose which data is "meaningful" and which is "noise". It is all part of the homeostasis mechanism for a scientific paradigm and the researchers don't even seem to be aware of the game they are playing. They just want their grant money and to maintain their professional status by confirming or fixing the established model.

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 4:38 PM by Ribald

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I couldn't agree more!!!!

Re: Bush admin lies!!!
posted on 02/20/2004 1:14 PM by /:setAI

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ther is NO WAY I can talk about this stuff without triggering a secret service flag- suffice to say- if Bush is reelected we will likely see the most chaos/war/despair in human history

Re: What is Ray responding to?
posted on 06/29/2005 5:36 PM by Jake Witmer

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Are you going to vote for John Kerry?

I am.



I really let this forum down by not being here in early 2004. Sorry. I was on the road preserving ballot access for the single choice in favor of less government that we had in 2004 ( http://www.badnarik.org/ ). The only rational choice for President, as usual, was the Libertarian candidate for president.

Of course he had no chance of winning, but when your choices are the political philosophy of Hitler (Bush) or Stalin (Kerry) why would you choose either?

Technology under Kerry would have been stifled even more than it was/is under Bush, just through normal, "common sense" regulation. You see, regulation is the use of force in the hands of the ingorant majority. -Why should they be tolerant and try to understand the difficult issues when they don't have to? -It's far easier for the FDA to ban things than to "allow" them to market.

Our government says (through its actions) "You have no individual rights, if the majority votes them down"

Well, guess what? -Hitler got elected on the same message, because the Weimar Republic's decayed society did not value individual rights. Is there any scientific reason behind the drug war? -No. Certainly no reason worth losing our precious Bill of Rights over. To see a full set of arguments in detail on this point, please read "The Ominous Parallels" by Leonard Peikoff, or just take a look at http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills or better yet, take a look at :
http://www.roadblock.org/roadblocks/az.htm
or
http://www.libertybill.net/np.html

Kerry supports this nonsense the same as Bush does. (And he's a gun grabber, so he'd really bring us a step toward democide "mass murder by government")
http://www.innocentsbetrayed.com/

There would still be the "Roadblock" no-warrant or valid reason searches of private property under Kerry. Would we want either of these rogue administrations in a position to hold absolute power? That's what we get if the "leading force" controls access to defensive nanotechnology. (read the largest account on the following link if you want to know what the future of America everywhere will be like with government "supervision" of nanotechnology):
http://www.roadblock.org/roadblocks/az.htm

The best thing nano-scientists could do is to, upon development, distribute nanotrechnology knowledge and equipment to gunowners like these:

http://www.barrettrifles.com/
http://www.libertybill.net/np.html
http://www.john-ross.net/
Why? These are the people who hae proven that they can handle the responsiblity of distributed power, already. Nobody knows anything about how a president will handle power when they're elected, especially the ones elected on vague platforms and general statements (the Democrats, Republicans, and Greens). These Parties get elected on promises of using government power (not restricting its use).

Again, if governments promising the best have given us mass murder in the past http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills , why would we ever trust them with the unlimited power of nanotechnology? A few individuals who have shown intelligence and restraint in the past would be infinitely more likely to prevent the misuse of this technology.

To understand the philosophical reasons for maintaining adequate self-defense technology, I strongly recommend the book "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross, followed by detailed research on that author's sources, since the work is historical fiction. Emphasis on the "historical".

We are at a fork in the road. Those who have trusted government force in the past have either laid the ground for mass murder, or been pushed into mass graves themselves. Let's learn from history.

-Jake

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/20/2004 2:52 AM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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Oh, common! What was your option in 2000? A Green Pagan (Gore) or a devoted Christian (Bush). The last is better, after all.

And one should be clear to the Kurzweil's site readers. Don't count on Nobel's laureates too heavily! Especially not on a group of them. Always remember the Smayle character and use your own head, not those of twenty or more Nobelos.

p.s.

Politicians over here (EU) are all Dean like or worse. Comfort yourself with this fact, if you can!


Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/20/2004 10:03 AM by grantcc

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Oh, common! What was your option in 2000? A Green Pagan (Gore) or a devoted Christian (Bush). The last is better, after all.


I know the choices are few but I care less about who comes in than about getting rid of a group of people (one man isn't responsible for much of anything in government, even the president) who have taken this country into a pattern of politics by confrontation with other countries, acting as if the U.S. is above the law (they want a world court for the rest of the world but don't want to be held back by it themselves), a policy of letting big companies rip off the public and state governments (see what Enron did to California by creating an energy crunch and the administration refusing to let regulators correct the condition), and pushing the country into a massive debt that will haunt not only our children and their children after them, but may bring about a global recession, if not a depression (remember 1997).

Bush is one of those Christians who believe it's all right to kill people in the name of Christ but not OK to pursue any technology that interferes with big business or his religious beliefs -- no matter what it does to the economy or the environment. He helps the vice president and his cronies (Haliburton and others) systematically loot the public treasury for their own gain while claiming to help the people he governs. (fifty-dollar tax breaks for the masses but huge tax breaks for the special interests who avoid paying taxes by using off-shore banks and having mail-box headquarters in the Caribian and South America)

My opinion is that whoever gains the presidency, they can't do much worse than Bush and will probably do a lot better. Bush and his team are all cold warriors who are taking on the problems of today as if they were part of a new cold war with the Muslim nations. {The religion Reagan and all the presidents after WWII fought was Communism.)

The old tactics of beating other nations into submission and telling them to become more like the U.S. are not a valid way of dealing with a global civilization that is emerging from modern commerce, transportation and communications. What the present administration is doing affects not only the people of this country but has global consequences that must be acknowledged. We no longer live in an "us or them" world. No one country can rule over all the others any more. That kind of thinking is what we have to get rid of.

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 8:02 AM by normdoering

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Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan wrote:
"What was your option in 2000? A Green Pagan (Gore) or a devoted Christian (Bush). The last is better, after all."

Why was the last better? It's rather apparent that most posters here don't agree with that, so you'll have to come up with an argument -- not a bald and empty claim.

Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan also wrote:
"Don't count on Nobel's laureates too heavily! Especially not on a group of them."

We don't have to count on them -- it's just interesting to note that such a group has made an official protest at election time. They lay out specific arguments, as do Bush's advisors -- you have to check out both.

Are you actually against Stem Cell research like Bush's people?

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 10:26 AM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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I have to say several things.

That it is healthy for American folk, to criticize their president. I wish, that HERE would be the same. That OUR politicians were under fire, and not Bush.

_Before_ I criticize Bush for his attitude toward steam cell matter, I criticize Eurocrates because of their attitude against GM soybeans or corn. Not because I am from Yurope, but because I am from this planet.

From the same reason I have another two things to say:

Bush (IMO) made a mistake with Moon and Mars space program shift. From HST and other robot missions.

Bush is (IMO) right about Kyoto and Iraq.

Bush is (IMO) wrong about unemployment, because he is unable to see, that a big automatization is underway.



What (IMO) counts the most, is his focus on supercomputing. This is essential.




Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 12:13 PM by normdoering

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"What (IMO) counts the most, is his focus on supercomputing."

I didn't even know Bush had a focus on supercomputing. What makes you think Kerry won't?

So, what is Bush doing with supercomputing exactly, using it to spy on us through the patriot act? Creating artificial intelligence? Trying to predict the weather?

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 2:18 PM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns999 94366

Making clean energy by nuclear fusion and building supercomputers to speed up scientific research are the top priorities in physical science, according to a new US Department of Energy road map.


Now, if you don't now the topic, why are you discussing it?



Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 2:37 PM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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don't know, that is.

Supercomputing is the key technology on the road to the Singularity. Everything else will be quite easy then.

I can imagine, that Bush has no clue about that, but what do you want of a politician? Or of a baker, for that matter. Don't push to it much!



Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 2:41 PM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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push it to much, that is.

Everything what you ought to expect of a president is the prosperity of a country.

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 3:00 PM by subtillioN

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you probably mean "push it *too* much"

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 3:38 PM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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to two too

You are right, yes!

I am right about the topic. ,-)

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 4:10 PM by subtillioN

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just trying to help ;-)

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/21/2004 9:41 PM by normdoering

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> Now, if you don't now the topic, why are
> you discussing it?

I wasn't discussing it. I was talking about the Bush bioethics stance which severly limited fetal stem cell research for superstitious reasons.

And I don't think supercomputing is the best road to the singularity because it puts A.I. level computing in the hands of only government and big business. It's when companies like Intel start making human-level A.I. capable chips for more average costs that the singularity will take off.

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/22/2004 3:50 AM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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No bioethics will give you the Singularity. Not that of Bush, who is so afraid of 100 cells large embryo, not that of EU, which so scared about modified corn.

Stupid politicians _everywhere_ - more here. But you cannot - I repeat, you cannot - expect, that they will be radically different from their electorate.

Christians in America "deserves" Bush, as Greens over here "deserves" Romano Prodi.

Or at least - you can't expect biotech friendly president - where do you live? Maybe in Turkey, but only until Muslim clerics make a connection between God and genes. What are about to do.

Fortunately, there is no link between God and supercomputer in the heads of your political elite. So they will not restrict this area for quite some time. In fact, your current administration puts SC high in its agenda.

I'll stop now, before I go off topic of this thread.

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/22/2004 9:42 AM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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And there is another thing. While "George Bush" will (I guess), stop to oppose the stem cell research when those cells will not be embrionic anymore, "Romano Prodi" is alegeric to every modified gene.

Just as "Ralph Nander" or "Ayatola Muhamady" are.

You are too spoiled, my American friends! :-P

Re: Statement for Extropy Institute Vital Progress Summit
posted on 02/22/2004 10:23 AM by normdoering

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You might as well go off topic since the first sentence of my first post -- the first post here -- was a complaint that Ray himself had gone off topic and wasn't addressing the bioethics report.

Granted, this whole website is geared more for discussing computer technology and nanotechnology and the singularity -- and you're right Bush is probably too blind to see the singularity coming. But it's that blindness which suggests to me that government funded research isn't the research that will contribute to the singularity -- and if it does, it will be a dangerous version of the singularity.

Arthur Caplan counters Beyond Therapy report
posted on 02/20/2004 7:28 AM by mindxmoderator

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In "Is Biomedical Research Too Dangerous to Pursue?" in the Feb. 20 issue of Science magazine, Arthur Caplan, director, Center for Bioethics, University of Pennsylvania, takes on Kass and others. He states: "The concern that advances in biotechnology will come at a terrible price--the loss of authentic happiness, the loss of what makes life meaningful--struggle, suffering frailty, finitude, and death do not seem to square with what we have already experienced in the wake of biomedical progress. Do those who use glasses, insulin injections, wheelchairs, inhalers, oxygen tanks, hearing aids, or prosthetic limbs feel inauthentic or overcome by a loss of meaning in their lives? If I use a calculator, a computer, or the Internet to solve a problem, do I feel that I have been cheated out of a more authentic experience enjoyed by my grandparents, who used pen and paper calculation, visited a library, or mastered the plication table? There is little evidence for the dour view that we can only be happy when we have earned our happiness."

Science, Volume 303, Number 5661, Issue of 20 Feb 2004, p. 1142 http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/303/566 1/1142

politics in a nutshell: Leiberal=correct
posted on 02/20/2004 1:34 PM by /:setAI

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I grow more and more tired of the folk/media political philosophy that conservativism and liberalism are like equal opposite views with a balanced debate of the issues-

let me be clear and unambiguous: the reason why virtually all "smart" and educated/scientific/artistic people are liberals is simply because for the most part- what is called the "liberal/progressive agenda" is essentially the most REASONABLE/ CORRECT/ LOGICAL/ETHICAL and SENSIBLE way to order a society of intelligent beings-

the conservative ideology is both economically and ethically bankrupt- totally bereft of logic or compassion- and is nothing more than illusions/lies/misunderstandings kludged into an untenable "logic" ultimately designed to perserve a narrow view/method of society by force and terror and ignorance

the conservative ideology is not in competition with the liberal/progressive ideology- conservativism is a primitive and fear-driven memetic parasite which acts to limit and threaten the health/optimized/balanced/proper development and maintenance of society- the liberal/progressive ideology represents that optimal holistic balance while conservativism attemptes to isolate and monopolize a small portion of society [a tumor]-

it is time for all of those people with IQs over 80 that are not ruled by the cultavated fears/prejudices of their childhood to proclaim this truth- conservativism is not another view- it is a sickness of the collective soul

Re: politics in a nutshell: Leiberal=correct
posted on 02/20/2004 3:10 PM by TwinBeam

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Well, now that we have your un-biased, totally objective analysis, it seems so obvious...

Re: politics in a nutshell: Leiberal=correct
posted on 02/20/2004 3:28 PM by Ribald

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Hahahahah!

Re: politics in a nutshell: Leiberal=correct
posted on 02/20/2004 3:31 PM by /:setAI

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(^_^)

Re: politics in a nutshell: Leiberal=correct
posted on 05/26/2004 5:34 PM by Shawn_Herles

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"what is called the "liberal/progressive agenda" is essentially the most REASONABLE/ CORRECT/ LOGICAL/ETHICAL and SENSIBLE way to order a society of intelligent beings"

Why? On what basis do you make this claim? Provide us with some evidence to back it up.

The problem with your rant is that, apart from having a shallow cartoon understanding of conservatism, is that you fail to point out that the so-called "liberal/progressive" agaenda is not truly liberal at all, but socialist. A liberal agenda would be one based on individual freedom, property rights and the free market.

Also there are many different kinds of conservatism. Which one are you trying to critique?

In general is is false to say that conservatism is fear based. Conservatism in America has generally been the far more positive and optimistic regarding progress, with hte left issuing dire apocalyptic warnings about nuclear conflict or environmental disaster. Traditionalist conservatives who base their thought on that of Russell Kirk while not sharing the optimism of neoconservatives or libertarian conservatives is also not fear based, but based on a respect for tradition and a cautionary approach to change. Personally I prefer the libertarian (thats REAL liberalism)form of conservatism which is much more enthusiastic about technology.

And lets not forget that some of the most luddite critics of new technology are left wing Greens.

Re: politics in a nutshell: Leiberal=correct
posted on 06/29/2005 5:45 PM by Jake Witmer

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Personally I prefer the libertarian (thats REAL liberalism)form of conservatism which is much more enthusiastic about technology.



You're absolutely correct. See my above post.

Please move to Alaska or Costa Rica so you can be with the rest of the cutting-edge movement towards individual freedom. New hampshire (FSP) would also be better than staying in a place like Cali, IL , or NY, but they have been compromised by a traitorous leader already (They told me not to put them on the ballot in 2004 and were one of 2 states that Badnarik wasn't on the ballot). We've got to be more organized than they are, or we'll deserve to lose.

Best of Luck.

-Jake