Origin > The Singularity > Exploring the 'Singularity'
Permanent link to this article: http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0584.html

Printable Version
    Exploring the 'Singularity'
by   James John Bell

The point in time when current trends may go wildly off the charts--known as the "Singularity"--is now getting serious attention. What it suggests is that technological change will soon become so rapid that we cannot possibly envision its results.


Originally published in The Futurist June 1, 2003. Published on KurzweilAI.net June 6, 2003.

Technological change isn't just happening fast. It's happening at an exponential rate. Contrary to the commonsense, intuitive, linear view, we won't just experience 100 years of progress in the twenty-first century—it will be more like 20,000 years of progress.

The near-future results of exponential technological growth will be staggering: the merging of biological and nonbiological entities in bio­robotics, plants and animals engineered to grow pharmaceutical drugs, software-based "life," smart robots, and atom-sized machines that self-replicate like living matter. Some individuals are even warning that we could lose control of this expanding techno-cornucopia and cause the total extinction of life as we know it. Others are researching how this permanent technological overdrive will affect us. They're trying to understand what this new world of ours will look like and how accelerating technology already impacts us.

A number of scientists believe machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence within a few decades, leading to what's come to be called the Singularity. Author and inventor Ray Kurzweil defines this phenomenon as "technological change so rapid and profound it could create a rupture in the very fabric of human history."

Singularity is technically a mathematical term, perhaps best described as akin to what happens on world maps in a standard atlas. Everything appears correct until we look at regions very close to the poles. In the standard Mercator projection, the poles appear not as points but as a straight line. Each line is a singularity: Everywhere along the top line contains the exact point of the North Pole, and the bottom line is the entire South Pole.

The singularity on the edge of the map is nothing compared to the singularity at the center of a black hole. Here one finds the astrophysicist's singularity, a rift in the continuum of space and time where Einstein's rules no longer function. The approaching technological Singularity, like the singularities of black holes, marks a point of departure from reality. Explorers once wrote "Beyond here be dragons" on the edges of old maps of the known world, and the image of life as we approach these edges of change are proving to be just as mysterious, dangerous, and controversial.

There is no concise definition for the Singularity. Kurzweil and many transhumanists define it as "a future time when societal, scientific, and economic change is so fast we cannot even imagine what will happen from our present perspective." A range of dates is given for the advent of the Singularity. "I'd be surprised if it happened before 2004 or after 2030," writes author and computer science professor Vernor Vinge. A distinctive feature will be that machine intelligence will have exceeded and even merged with human intelligence. Another definition is used by extropians, who say it denotes "the singular time when technological development will be at its fastest." From an environmental perspective, the Singularity can be thought of as the point at which technology and nature become one. Whatever perspective one takes, at this juncture the world as we have known it will become extinct, and new definitions of life, nature, and human will take hold.

Many leading technology industries have been aware of the possibility of a Singularity for some time. There are concerns that, if the public understood its ramifications, they might panic over accepting new and untested technologies that bring us closer to Singularity. For now, the debate about the consequences of the Singularity has stayed within the halls of business and technology; the kinks are being worked out, avoiding "doomsday" hysteria. At this time, it appears to matter little if the Singularity ever truly comes to pass.

What Will Singularity Look Like?

Kurzweil explains that central to the workings of the Singularity are a number of "laws," one of which is Moore's law. Intel cofounder Gordon E. Moore noted that the number of transistors that could fit on a single computer chip had doubled every year for six years from the beginnings of integrated circuits in 1959. Moore predicted that the trend would continue, and it has&#8212although the doubling rate was later adjusted to an 18-month cycle.

Today, the smallest transistors in chips span only thousands of atoms (hundreds of nanometers). Chipmakers build such components using a process in which they apply semiconducting, metallic, and insulating layers to a semiconductor wafer to create microscopic circuitry. They accomplish the procedure using light for imprinting patterns onto the wafer. In order to keep Moore's law moving right along, researchers today have built circuits out of transistors, wires, and other components as tiny as a few atoms across that can carry out simple computations.

Kurzweil and Sun Microsystems' chief scientist Bill Joy agree that, circa 2030, the technology of the 1999 film The Matrix (which visualized a three-dimensional interface between humans and computers, calling conventional reality into question) will be within our grasp and that humanity will be teetering on the edge of the Singularity. (See their essays in Taking the Red Pill: Science, Philosophy, and Religion in The Matrix, edited by Glenn Yeffeth, 2003.) Kurzweil explains that this will become possible because Moore's law will be replaced by another computing paradigm over the next few decades. "Moore's law was not the first but the fifth paradigm to provide exponential growth of computing power," Kurzweil says. The first paradigm of computer technology was the data processing machinery used in the 1890 American census. This electromechanical computing technology was followed by the paradigms of relay-based technology, vacuum tubes, transistors, and eventually integrated circuits. "Every time a paradigm ran out of steam," states Kurzweil, "another paradigm came along and picked up where that paradigm left off." The sixth paradigm, the one that will enable technology á la The Matrix, will be here in 20 to 30 years. "It's obvious what the sixth paradigm will be&#8212computing in three dimensions," says Kurzweil. "We will effectively merge with our technology."

Stewart Brand in his book The Clock of the Long Now discusses the Singularity and another related law, Monsanto's law, which states that the ability to identify and use genetic information doubles every 12 to 24 months. This exponential growth in biological knowledge is transforming agriculture, nutrition, and health care in the emerging life-sciences industry.

A field of research building on the exponential growth rate of biotechnology is nanotechnology—the science of building machines out of atoms. A nanometer is atomic in scale, a distance that's 0.001% of the width of human hair. One goal of this science is to change the atomic fabric of matter—to engineer machine­like atomic structures that reproduce like living matter. In this respect, it is similar to biotechnology, except that nanotechnology needs to literally create something like an inorganic version of DNA to drive the building of its tiny machines. "We're working out the rules of biology in a realm where nature hasn't had the opportunity to work," states University of Texas biochemistry professor Angela Belcher. "What would take millions of years to evolve on its own takes about three weeks on the bench top."

Machine progress is knocking down the barriers between all the sciences. Chemists, biologists, engineers, and physicists are now finding themselves collaborating on more and more experimental research. This collaboration is best illustrated by the opening of Cornell University's Nanobiotechnology Center and other such facilities around the world. These scientists predict breakthroughs soon that will open the way to molecular-size computing and the quantum computer, creating new scientific paradigms where exponential technological progress will leap off the map. Those who have done the exponential math quickly realize the possibilities in numerous industries and scientific fields&#8212and then they notice the anomaly of the Singularity happening within this century.

In 2005, IBM plans to introduce Blue Gene, a supercomputer that can perform at about 5% of the power of the human brain. This computer could transmit the entire contents of the Library of Congress in less than two seconds. Blue Gene/L, specifically developed to advance and serve the growing life-sciences ­industry, is expected to operate at about 200 teraflops (200 trillion floating­-point operations per second), larger than the total computing power of the top 500 supercomputers in the world. It will be able to run extremely complex simulations, including breakthroughs in computers and information technology, creating new frontiers in biology, says IBM's Paul M. Horn. According to Moore's law, computer hardware will surpass human brainpower in the first decade of this century. Software that emulates the human mind&#8212artificial intelligence—may take another decade to evolve.

Nanotech Advances Promote Singularity

Physicists, mathematicians, and scientists like Vinge and Kurzweil have identified through their research the likely boundaries of the Singularity and have predicted with confidence various paths leading up to it over the next couple of decades. These scientists are currently debating what discovery could set off a chain reaction of Earth-altering technological events. They suggest that advancements in the fields of nanotechnology or the discovery of artificial intelligence could usher in the Singularity.

The majority of people closest to these theories and laws—the tech sector&#8212can hardly wait for these technologies to arrive. The true believers call themselves extropians, posthumans, and transhumanists, and are actively organizing not just to bring the Singularity about, but to counter the technophobes and neo-Luddites who believe that unchecked technological progress will exceed our ability to reverse any destructive process that might un­intentionally be set in motion.

The antithesis to neo-Luddite activists is the extropians. For example, the Progress Action Coalition, formed in 2001 by bio-artist, author, and extropian activist Natasha Vita-More, fantasizes about "the dream of true artificial intelligence . . . adding a new richness to the human landscape never before known." Pro-Act, AgBioworld, Biotechnology Progress, Foresight Institute, the Progress and Freedom Foundation, and other industry groups acknowledge, however, that the greatest threat to technological progress comes not just from environmental groups, but from a small faction of the scientific community.

Knowledge-Enabled Mass Destruction

In April 2000, a wrench was thrown into the arrival of the Singularity by an unlikely source: Sun Micro­systems chief scientist Bill Joy. He is a neo-Luddite without being a Luddite, a technologist warning the world about technology. Joy co-founded Sun Microsystems, helped create the Unix computer operating system, and developed the Java and Jini software systems—systems that helped give the Internet "life."

In a now-infamous cover story in Wired magazine, "Why the Future Doesn't Need Us," Joy warned of the dangers posed by developments in genetics, nanotechnology, and robotics. Joy's warning of the impacts of exponential technological progress run amok gave new credence to the coming Singularity. Unless things change, Joy predicted, "We could be the last generation of humans." Joy warned that "knowledge alone will enable mass destruction" and termed this phenomenon "knowledge­enabled mass destruction."

The twentieth century gave rise to nuclear, biological, and chemical (NBC) technologies that, while powerful, require access to vast amounts of raw (and often rare) materials, technical information, and large-scale industries. The twenty-first-century technologies of genetics, nanotechnology, and robotics (GNR), however, will require neither large facilities nor rare raw materials.

The threat posed by GNR technologies becomes further amplified by the fact that some of these new technologies have been designed to be able to replicate—i.e., they can build new versions of themselves. Nuclear bombs did not sprout more bombs, and toxic spills did not grow more spills. If the new self­replicating GNR technologies are released into the environment, they could be nearly impossible to recall or control.

Joy understands that the greatest dangers we face ultimately stem from a world where global corporations dominate&#8212a future where much of the world has no voice in how the world is run. Twenty-first-century GNR technologies, he writes, "are being developed almost exclusively by corporate enterprises. We are aggressively pursuing the promises of these new technologies within the now-unchallenged system of global capitalism and its manifold financial incentives and competitive pressures."

Joy believes that the system of global capitalism, combined with our current rate of progress, gives the human race a 30% to 50% chance of going extinct around the time the Singularity is expected to happen, around 2030. "Not only are these estimates not encouraging," he adds, "but they do not include the probability of many horrid outcomes that lie short of extinction."

It is very likely that scientists and global corporations will miss key developments—or, worse, actively avoid discussion of them. A whole generation of biologists has left the field for the biotech and nanotech labs. Biologist Craig Holdredge, who has followed biotech since its beginnings in the 1970s, warns, "Biology is losing its connection with nature."

When Machines Make War

Cloning, biotechnology, nanotechnology, and robotics are blurring the lines between nature and machine. In his 1972 speech "The Android and the Human," science-fiction visionary Philip K. Dick told his audience, "Machines are becoming more human. Our environment, and I mean our man-made world of machines, is becoming alive in ways specifically and fundamentally analogous to ourselves." In the near future, Dick prophesied, a human might shoot a robot only to see it bleed from its wound. When the robot shoots back, it may be surprised to find the human gush smoke. "It would be rather a great moment of truth for both of them," Dick added.

In November 2001, Advanced Cell Technology of Massachusetts jarred the nation's focus away from recession and terrorism when it announced that it had succeeded in cloning early-stage human embryos. Debate on the topic stayed equally divided between those who support therapeutic cloning and those, like the American Medical Association, who want an outright ban.

Karel Capek coined the word robot (Czech for "forced labor") in the 1920 play R.U.R., in which machines assume the drudgery of factory production, then develop feelings and proceed to wipe out humanity in a violent revolution. While the robots in R.U.R. could represent the "nightmare vision of the proletariat seen through middle-class eyes," as ­science-fiction author Thomas Disch has suggested, they also are testament to the persistent fears of man-made technology run amok.

Similar themes have manifested themselves in popular culture and folklore since at least medieval times. While some might dismiss these stories simply as popular paranoia, robots are already being deployed beyond Hollywood and are poised to take over the deadlier duties of the modern soldier. The Pentagon is replacing soldiers with sensors, vehicles, aircraft, and weapons that can be operated by remote control or are autonomous. Pilot­less aircraft played an important role in the bombings of Afghanistan, and a model called the Gnat conducted surveillance flights in the Philippines in 2002.

Leading the Pentagon's remote-control warfare effort is the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). Best known for creating the infrastructure that became the World Wide Web, DARPA is working with Boeing to develop the X-45 unmanned combat air vehicle. The 30-foot-long windowless planes will carry up to 12 bombs, each weighing 250 pounds. According to military analysts, the X-45 will be used to attack radar and antiaircraft installations as early as 2007. By 2010, it will be programmed to distinguish friends from foes without consulting humans and independently attack targets in designated areas. By 2020, robotic planes and vehicles will direct remote-controlled bombers toward targets, robotic helicopters will coordinate driverless convoys, and unmanned submarines will clear mines and launch cruise ­missiles.

Rising to the challenge of mixing man and machine, MIT's Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies (backed by a five-year, $50-million U.S. Army grant) is busy innovating materials and designs to create military uniforms that rival the best science fiction. Human soldiers themselves are being transformed into modern cyborgs through robotic devices and nanotechnology.

The Biorobotic Arms Race

The 2002 International Conference on Robotics and Automation, hosted by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, kicked off its technical session with a discussion on biorobots, the melding of living and artificial structures into a cybernetic organism or cyborg.

"In the past few years, the biosciences and robotics have been getting closer and closer," says Paolo Dario, founder of Italy's Advanced Robotics Technology and Systems Lab. "More and more, biological models are used for the design of biometric robots [and] robots are increasingly used by neuroscientists as clinical platforms for validating biological models." Artificial constructs are beginning to approach the scale and complexity of living systems.

Some of the scientific breakthroughs expected in the next few years promise to make cloning and robotics seem rather benign. The merging of technology and nature has already yielded some shocking progeny. Consider these examples:

•   Researchers at the State University of New York Health Science Center at Brooklyn have turned a living rat into a radio-controlled automaton using three electrodes placed in the animal's brain. The animal can be remotely steered through an obstacle course, making it twist, turn, and jump on demand.

•   In May 2002, eight elderly Florida residents were injected with microscopic silicon identification chips encoded with medical information. The Los Angeles Times reported that this made them "scannable just like a jar of peanut butter in the supermarket checkout line." Applied Digital Solutions Inc., the maker of the chip, will soon have a prototype of an implantable device able to receive GPS satellite signals and transmit a person's location.

•   Human embryos have been successfully implanted and grown in artificial wombs. The experiments were halted after a few days to avoid violating in vitro fertilization regulations.

•   Researchers in Israel have fashioned a "bio-computer" out of DNA that can handle a billion operations per second with 99.8% accuracy. Reuters reports that these bio-computers are so minute that "a trillion of them could fit inside a test tube."

•   In England, University of Reading Professor Kevin Warwick has implanted microchips in his body to remotely monitor and control his physical motions. During Warwick's Project Cyborg experiments, computers were able to remotely monitor his movements and open doors at his approach.

•   Engineers at the U.S. Sandia National Labs have built a remote­controlled spy robot equipped with a scanner, microphone, and chemical microsensor. The robot weighs one ounce and is smaller than a dime. Lab scientists predict that the microbot could prove invaluable in protecting U.S. military and economic interests.

The next arms race is not based on replicating and perfecting a single deadly technology, like the nuclear bombs of the past or some space-based weapon of the future. This new arms race is about accelerating the development and integration of advanced autonomous, biotechnological, and human-robotic systems into the military apparatus. A mishap or a massive war using these new technologies could be more catastrophic than any nuclear war.

Where the Map Exceeds the Territory

The rate at which GNR technologies are being adopted by our society—without regard to long-term safety testing or researching the political, cultural, and economic ramifications—mirrors the development and proliferation of nuclear power and weapons. The human loss caused by experimentation, production, and development is still being felt from the era of NBC technologies.

The discussion of the environmental impacts of GNR technologies, at least in the United States, has been relegated to the margins. Voices of concern and opposition have likewise been missing in discussions of the technological Singularity. The true cost of this technological progress and any coming Singularity will mean the unprecedented decline of the planet's inhabitants at an ever-increasing rate of global extinction.

The World Conservation Union, the International Botanical Congress, and a majority of the world's biologists believe that a global mass extinction already is under way. As a direct result of human activity (resource extraction, industrial agriculture, the introduction of non-native animals, and population growth), up to one-fifth of all living species are expected to disappear within 30 years. A 1998 Harris Poll of the 5,000 members of the American Institute of Biological Sciences found that 70% believed that what has been termed "The Sixth Extinction" is now under way. A simultaneous Harris Poll found that 60% of the public were totally unaware of the impending biological collapse.

At the same time that nature's ancient biological creation is on the decline, laboratory-created biotech life-forms—genetically modified soybeans, genetically engineered salmon, cloned sheep, drug-crops, biorobots&#8212are on the rise.

Nature and technology are not just evolving; they are competing and combining with one another. Ultimately they will become one. We hear reports daily about these new technologies and new creations, while shreds of the ongoing biological collapse surface here and there. Past the edges of change, beyond the wall across the future, anything becomes possible. Beware the dragons.

Š 2003 James John Bell. Reprinted with permission.

 

 

 

   
 

   [Post New Comment]
   
Mind·X Discussion About This Article:

The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 06/08/2003 1:44 PM by advancedatheist

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Apparently Singularitarians, Transhumanists, pro-globalization economists and other advocates of exponential energy use haven't been talking to the petroleum geologists. The signs of a global fossil fuels crisis are getting increasingly hard to deny. North America is facing a potentially disastrous shortage of natural gas THIS YEAR. It's so bad that U.S Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham has called an emergency meeting with leaders in the energy industry this month to try to come up with ways to deal with it before winter causes a potential crisis. And Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan is so worried about the economic effect of diminishing natgas stocks that he's scheduled to testify about it before a congressional committee on Tuesday, June 10.

Despite fantasies about transitioning to a "hydrogen economy" in response to gentle price signals from declining fossil fuels supplies, this emergency has caught North America completely flat-footed, and there is no plan -- NONE! -- for any kind of transition to fuels based on renewable energy. Add in the Bush Administration's seizure of Iraq earlier this year, and it becomes increasingly clear that the people running things know what is happening, but they apparently either don't know how to solve it or are unwilling to change the current system as long as there's short-term profit to be made.

Look to developments in New Zealand to see what could happen in the rest of the developed world as we enter the Post-Carbon Age. While New Zealand uses a lot of hydroelectric power, it needs additional generational capacity from fossil fuels. But its main gas field is becoming exhausted, and the power companies are having to convert to coal -- a much less desirable fuel -- much of which they have to import from Australia and Indonesia because the local supply won't suffice for more than a few years. New Zealand's few resources and geographic isolation make it the "miner's canary" of our future in the U.S., showing how hard it will be to keep the electricity online at a level sufficient for a developed industrial society when fossil fuels run out.

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 06/08/2003 1:54 PM by Thomas Kristan

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

The signs of a global fossil fuels crisis are getting increasingly hard to deny. North America is facing a potentially disastrous shortage of natural gas THIS YEAR.



Yeah sure! And there is no water anymore and no iron inside Earth.

LOL!

- Thomas

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 09/14/2003 2:39 AM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Yeah sure! And there is no water anymore and no iron inside Earth.


That about sums it up. When the singularity hits, the environmentalists and conservationists are going to be like the kid standing in front of the chalkboard in Stand and Deliver when he turned around and said, “What’s this cal-CUL-us?” They won’t know what hit them.

Scott

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 01/03/2004 12:11 PM by George Bowling

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

[That about sums it up. When the singularity hits, the environmentalists and conservationists are going to be like the kid standing in front of the chalkboard in Stand and Deliver when he turned around and said, ?What?s this cal-CUL-us?? They won?t know what hit them.]

If one of the foundational principles of singularity is the unpredictability of developments at or beyond the point of singularity, how could anyone, environtmentalist or not, "know what hit them"?
The quote to which I am responding suggests that those who dislike the idea of singularity will either delude themsleves into believeing it will not happen or otherwise bury their heads in the sands of ignorance to avoid confronting the subject. I look to the idea of singularity with a strong sense of apprehension and fear- of the unknown. Yet it is this fear that compelled to me to join this discussion and further compels me to learn as much as possible about the idea of singularity. All those interested in this theory must remember that no amount of prior knowledge will be sufficient to prepare human inidividuals for singularity, if it comes to pass.
On another note, I think it somewhat immature and unfair to make a blanket statement about the mentalities of the members of an ideological group on an issue that remains very open to speculation based on the contributions of a single, if slightly zealous, member.

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 01/03/2004 2:42 PM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

On another note, I think it somewhat immature and unfair to make a blanket statement about the mentalities of the members of an ideological group on an issue that remains very open to speculation based on the contributions of a single, if slightly zealous, member.


I concede that it is unfair. However, I do not think it is uncalled for. An observation that I have made about environmentalists is that they tend to be more like zealots—to use your own term—than like visionaries. They get locked onto one issue and push it beyond the point where it is any longer applicable. While environmentalists were worrying about overpopulation, the people who had access to the resources that could lead to overpopulation were already loosing interest in having babies. Now, environmentalists are worried about global warming, when the effect of global warming will probably never get a chance to manifest. Many of them are trying to reinterpret the issue of the singularity in terms of issues that they area already familiar with, rather than recognizing it as a completely new problem with completely new parameters. Moreover, they seem completely blind to the massive and overwhelming implications of the singularity and the stark reality that it will dominate all previous issues.

However, lest I be mistaken, I must assert that it was the efforts of environmentalists that resulted in the regulations on factory and automobile emissions that have made our air breathable; and I can’t express enough gratitude for their work in eliminating the indoor pollution we call cigarette smoke. Recently, when I was in a room where people were permitted to smoke, I was struck with the unimaginable reality we once lived with.

I once asked a pastor why the Lutheran church continued to reject the theory of evolution when the Catholics had accepted it. He said that he suspected it was a reaction to Darwinists who have argued so strongly that the theory of evolution effectively discounted the belief in anything spiritual. In my mind, both Darwinists and Christians have become too zealous in their views and both should stand back and reevaluate their motives. Like the Lutherans, I am reacting to the perceived zealousness of an organized movement. I am concerned that environmentalists will succeed in reinterpreting the singularity as a manifestation of existing environmental issues or as the mad imaginings of those who are ignorant of environmental issues. I am concerned that they will blind those who are marginally involved with the singularity to the real problem at hand, thus clouding our assessment and delaying our response. Moreover, I am concerned that they may divert all attention to environmental issues that may never manifest and take attention away from an issue that WILL manifest and could be our unwitting demise. Furthermore, I am concerned that they may, while well-intentioned, actually make the problem worse by failing to understand its true dynamics.

As I observed in another entry, environmentalists may attempt to convince people that a cure for old age and natural death will lead to overcrowding and that any such technologies should be made illegal. I have seen this view presented in movies and TV shows as if it were an accepted fact. After studying this problem, I am convinced that an end to natural death will actually result in a decrease in reproduction that will overshadow the lowered death rate. However, a simplistic evaluation of the issue could easily lead to the conclusion that the population will increase, and it would be easy to convince the ignorant that the population will increase—the mathematics seems so simple!

Now that you see where I am coming from, I must concede that it is wrong to make a blanket statement about an ideological group based on the statements of one zealous member. But my blanket statement and your response gave me an opportunity to clarify my views. For that, I am not at all apologetic.

Scott

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 01/03/2004 5:26 PM by George Bowling

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Thank you for your prompt reply. My initial question
as to how one can study, understand, and attempt to guide the course of an event that is, by definition a movement away from the realm of human understanding and towards new forms of intelligence was left unanswered. Is it not ridiculous to even conceive of consciously affecting the course of civilization, when it has heretofore been guided by massive and impersonal forces? I surmise from some of your statements that you believe it is possible to anticipate, understand and control singularity. If this is a fallacious assumption, forgive me for making it. Otherwise, please respond.

George

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 01/03/2004 8:19 PM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I surmise from some of your statements that you believe it is possible to anticipate, understand and control singularity.


Past experience seems to suggest that we cannot anticipate the future. However, we may not be giving ourselves enough credit. I can’t think of a single technology that some futurist, science fiction writer, or scientist didn’t anticipate in some form years before it was implemented. No single author has ever put it all together in exactly the right way, but nearly all of the parts were there.

My feeling about anticipating, understanding, and controlling the singularity is like my feeling about any natural wonder: it is only mysterious before we study it and understand it. While it would be incongruous to attempt to predict something which, by definition, is unpredictable, my hope is that by studying the singularity we may ultimately uncover some of its mystery. If this effort proves successful, then it may no longer be appropriate to call it a Technological Singularity (though I suspect that certain qualities will always warrant that characterization).

The singularity may, by definition, be unpredictable, but there are many models for dealing with unpredictability. A football team does not know what play the other team will call, but they can practice for a variety of different plays and contingencies so that they will be ready to deal with them when they come up. Similarly, we may not be able to predict the singularity, but we may be able to construct a game plan. It is even conceivable that, although we may never guess which specific direction it will take, we may anticipate every possibility. We may accumulate and delineate a playbook of sorts, keep it on hand, and keep perfecting it up to the day of the critical event.

Very often, things that cannot be understood in terms of specifics can be understood in terms of general principles. Gene pools are a good example of this. We do not know what every gene does, but we know approximately how many genes a particular species has, and we can use this information to make statistical predictions about how fast a population could conceivably change in a designated period of time. This approach has been very helpful to population biologists. Gödel’s incompleteness theorem is another good example of this kind of approach. Gödel could not have investigated every possible mathematical structure, but he was able, through logical processes, to make a deduction that must be true over a broad range of mathematical structures. Another example from mathematics is the proof that an angle cannot be trisected. It is impossible to anticipate every possible way of attempting to trisect an angle, but it has been proven that an angle cannot be trisected using the methods of Euclidean Geometry.

I honestly cannot say how we might ultimately master the singularity, but I suspect that if we study it and keep our eyes on it, we may be ready for it when it arrives. There may never be a moment of surprise—though we may find ourselves moving pretty fast and working to our wits end as we near that asymptote. By then, many of the technologies that will make the singularity possible will already be at our disposal. We may be running massive computer simulations up to the last seconds of the human era. We may be having computers planning and running massive computer simulations and reporting back to us in only extremely conceptual terms. Who knows, we may even be employing psychics! The point is that we can do a good job of preparing for and playing this game even if there is no indication AS YET that we have any chance of winning it.

Scott

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 01/03/2004 9:06 PM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Addendum:

To my knowledge, futurism has never been considered a formal academic discipline. It may be time to change that. Our survival as a species may depend on it.

Scott

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 06/09/2003 2:38 PM by RoyBoy

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Your doomsday scenario isn't very convincing. Yes fossil fuels are running out, and we are entering a period were extracting oil reserves will require significantly more expense to extract. (the deeper one goes, the more sediment)

But there are decades yet to go on existing reserves, and from what I hear there is plenty more in Afganistan and in the Ocean.

However the point things are market driven...if shortages become acute and serious, the market will demand a competitive solution...such as Hydrogen. It's amazing what can be done when there is actually a need, not a premature concern.

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 06/09/2003 2:57 PM by billmerit

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Well, 20 years of my career was in the oil industry, and I agree that there is plenty of gas. But, the issue here is infastructure and price. Just because there is a lot of gas, does not mean you can get it where you need it. How much time does it take for pipelines etc to be built? So, we can still have a serious crisis without a long term shortage.

It looks like someone may have dropped the ball on this one.

June 10 is tomorrow.

Re: The Singularity versus Peak Oil
posted on 09/14/2003 2:21 AM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Don’t forget biodiesel. It’s already on the market; it just isn’t competitive yet. As fossil fuels become scarce and consequently become too expensive, biodiesel and its offshoots will slip into their old slot as slick as college juniors become the new seniors.

That’s just another aspect of the singularity.

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 06/09/2003 2:43 PM by RoyBoy

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

"A 1998 Harris Poll of the 5,000 members of the American Institute of Biological Sciences found that 70% believed that what has been termed "The Sixth Extinction" is now under way. A simultaneous Harris Poll found that 60% of the public were totally unaware of the impending biological collapse."


I find this a bit presumptious of them. Let's say for sake of argument that 1/5 of species will die off, that there is a "six extinction" occuring as a result of us.

I don't see how this even comes close to being an 'impending biological collapse'.

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 09/04/2003 1:18 AM by boatman

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I would like to point out that 98% of all species which were present on earth are now extinct. Extinction often occurs when a more efficient organism arrives on the scene than it's predecessor. If, as we approach the singularity, humans begin merging with machines very rapidly, it stands to reason the old humans will be unable to compete with the new and "enhanced" variety. This evolutionary process may proceed as it has in the past-like the transition from the Wright Brothers' first airplane to the present Unmanned Aerial Vehicles capable of autonomous operations. This is the evolutionary process. When modern humans arrived on the scene some 30,000 years ago, Cro Magnon man, who had roamed the planet for 200,000+ years, mysteriously disappeared. Cro Magnon could not compete with modern man. Those humans who fail to merge with technology will also perish and a new species of humanity will rapidly take over. This isn't bad. It's nature's way.

Yes, there will be challenges, problems and opportunities. Present day humans have demonstrated short-sightedness in the areas of the environment, greed, war, and compassion for all life. It is my hope and desire that enhanced humans 20-30 years from now will be superior not only physically and intellectually to modern humans, but spiritually and co-operatively as well.

As I see it, merging of humans with machines is our only hope we have of cleaning up the global mess we find ourselves in.

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 06/12/2003 3:54 AM by Peter T

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I would suggest as additional reading, that the book "The Last Hours Of Ancient Sunlight" by Thom Hartmann would be very good research for this topic. It is also important to consider the implications of the fact of a soul in humanity, the concept of collective consciousness and the potential impact of higher consciousness on our "meddling"

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 09/14/2003 5:39 PM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Looking at this article and reading some of the entries, the thing I am wondering is how people will react in about 15 years when technology begins to get really wild. In the very first entry after the article, I see some clues.

It is clear that this person is accustomed to thinking in terms of economy and energy. I get the impression from their opening comment about “exponential energy use” that they believe the singularity is economy and energy based. Computers don’t use much energy, and most of the advances in miniaturization that will lead to the singularity have actually reduced the energy required to perform equivalent tasks. It is clear that people are frightened by technology, but it is surprising how quickly they embrace it. I am absolutely dumbfounded at the pace with which people have embraced cell-phones. For a while, it looked like the prospect of brain cancer would be a big issue. But that has given way to concerns over the dangers of people talking and driving. None of this has slowed the trend.

If the post office attempted to implement robot delivery men, some unions might protest and there could be quite a bit of sabotage. But that won’t be the first place we see robots. They will be used to fight wars, storm dangerous criminals, explore sewers, and care for quarantined patients. As the technology gets cheaper, people will be using them in their homes to vacuum and mow the lawn. As their capabilities become more sophisticated, they will be used to do more elaborate tasks. Honda’s Asimo is already doing service in Japan. Eventually, robots will be used as backup systems in airplanes and cars—like air bags. They will start out performing peripheral tasks, but the periphery will eventually become the whole. By then, people will be so used to seeing robots that the postal robot will seem perfectly natural.

Nanotechnology in medicine is already creeping up on us. I have explained these ideas to people that do not think a lot about technology, and they are usually aghast. However, they are OK with pill-sized robots that swim through someone’s intestines taking pictures—acclimatization is a powerful force. With a good sales job, they will accept nanobots swimming through their bloodstream.

Technology won’t surprise us, but it will overwhelm us. People used to thinking in terms of ecology and economy will feel like they have been left out of the loop. They will be like anti-abortion protestors when the morning-after pill was invented. They will be like Marxists when the Soviet Union Collapsed. They will be dumbfounded and bewildered. But they are only a model of this reaction. Even the programmers advancing this stuff will wonder what to do when languages become so high level that essentially everyone with a logical mind is a programmer. An acquaintance of mine, who considers himself to be quite computer literate, still answers his email in DOS. The closer you are to the technological front, the more sharply your obsolescence is felt.

As scores of people are put out of work by machines, the government will be forced by popular consent to make welfare, social security, and unemployment more widely available. Eventually, only a handful of people will actually work and the rest will be living off of government doles or income from investments—the democratization of the market has been a notable trend.

That is when the real fear will start to set in. People will realize collectively that they are guests in the world they helped to create. I honestly doubt that anyone will starve—except perhaps in countries like old Iraq where the leaders control everything and don’t care about the people—but they will feel useless. That moment in time is the thing singularitarians need to start addressing. That moment in time will be the most dangerous of all, and it could be the point when all of this either makes or breaks the human experiment.

Scott

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 12/31/2003 1:53 AM by PatrickJL

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I thought your response was excellent. However, I'd like you to clarify the following point:

"That is when the real fear will start to set in. People will realize collectively that they are guests in the world they helped to create."

Why, suddenly, would people wake up from their lives of leasure and protest against it. For example, I can't imagine people of today longing for the hunter gatherer days that our bodies were evolved for just so they could be in better physical shape.
I do have a logical belief in the inevitability of singularity. The thing that will let me sleep tonight is the comforting thought that I will never realize we're about to pass that threshhold. It will creep up on us and be as normal and natural as anything else surrounding us when it happens. Ignorance, in this case, is bliss.
I appreciate any response or thoughts from others on this.
Patrick

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 12/31/2003 11:52 AM by lacrima_mortis

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

People will not suddenly "wake up". That occasionaly happens to individuals and never to groups.

There is a truth to this though. Free time can create problems, like depression. If people gradually become obsolete as a workforce, society will inevitably find ways to "fill up" their time. This will happen gradually and unperceptively, but it's possible that more and more people will realize it, which in turn could cause existential problems.

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 12/31/2003 6:23 PM by jontait

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Isn't this what the increased usage of Mary Jane and entertainment like "Nirvana" is a response to? The Singularity is upon us brother.

Personally I prefer counter-strike and loads of caffiene.

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 01/01/2004 2:59 PM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

The Singularity is upon us brother.


This is a valid observation. We are already on a much steeper part of the slope leading to the singularity than we consciously realize. We are so acclimatized to change, that a new technology quickly taking over from the old has begun to seem perfectly natural. Note how quickly we went from using floppy disks to using cassette disks and then on to CD’s. The question is: are we really handling this rate of change as well as we think we are?

Scott

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 12/16/2006 10:46 PM by DrJ-Professor

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

The exponential curve has a definite data driven reality. Do we however reach what I would call the Change Barrier as we approach vertical? As we approach this Change Barrier human processes that sustain us would crumble under the acceleration driven by technology. A nonhuman entity might make it to the singularity, but it seems unlikely that humans could survive the rate of change. The Change Barrier would be defined as the point at which humans can not exist and it would preceed the singularity.

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 02/05/2009 3:17 AM by jwilcox87

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

yea, see you're right that human beings won't exist anymore. We will have all evolved into something that would be insulted to be called human.

I like the point someone made about how much we have been acclimated to change in the past decades, relative to past centuries. Right now, we could probably predict what we will have created in the next 5 years with pretty good accuracy. In that time spand, we will learn of what we will be capable of from there. Just because singularity is not predictable from where we are right now does not mean that it is unpredictable from the imminent stages of singularity.

And once at this point of almost-singularity, what makes everybody think that we WON't be so much more bionically enhanced that we can still predict a reasonable distance into the future.

Look at it this way...
evolutions of 'humans' will manifest themselves within day spans at some point. But our evolved high-capacities will allow us to predict and plan for multiple days or weeks ahead of time. The point where we won't be able to handle what's coming won't ever happen...

we're talkin instant-wireless-communication of life stories and life-research continuously being sent everywhere to everyone else on a world-wide (or universal-wide :) ) network, where every split second contains thousands of new technologies... we will be fully immersed as super computer-beings, capable of so much incredible speed.

that's a singularity... where the exponential curve might as well be straight up.

The only rule that will always be followed... human beings are curious. So don't hope for some zen-like bhuddist jungle creatures who become super spiritual... human beings WILL be their own gods creating, discovering, creating over and over again.

you could try to envision a species with the human race's individuality combined with zerg's functionality capabilities (from starcraft, can't wait for 2nd one).

oh and BY THE WAY!!! nobody's mentioned 2012, the Mayan calendar predictions along with 5 other independent predictive sources from both ancient and contemporary times... predict something big happening. The Mayans (who also predictd their own downfall in the same year that the Spanish arrived in South America) roughly predict the following:
some extremely prevelant event will occur that will cause a chain reaction leading to the deaths of many people on this planet over the course of some unspecified time. However, the mayan predictions made clear that 'some will survive', and furthermore, ascend into being a 'higher conscience'.

that is the legit way they said it... not the "end of the world" crap that got around.

The way I see it, this 'event' will include some kind of biotech upgrades for humans, but with how expensive they will be, only the richest and the brightest will get a hold of these. It is this select percentage of the world that will make a huge thrust towards singularity... while most people are left behind. a classism split that the distance apart from eachother makes it even more impossible to fix the split and catch everybody up. as the upper-upper class lives for hundreds of years with technologically enhanced brains and bodies grows further apart from 'humans'... humans will eventually become expendable... the slave race that will cease to exist sooner or later.

Anyway, that's my take on this all. hope i spark some worthwhile thoughts or discussions

-Jon

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 01/01/2004 3:26 PM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

One other thing: it occurs to me that the ease with which so many of us have grasped the nature (if not always the plausibility) of the singularity is a manifestation of the aforementioned existential fear. Why does such a strange idea make such immediate sense? It’s almost as if we ran into the woman we were always meant to meet!

Scott

Re: Exploring the 'Singularity'
posted on 12/31/2003 6:30 PM by Scottt

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Why, suddenly, would people wake up from their lives of leisure and protest against it.


You have given me a hard assignment. Nevertheless, I shall attempt an answer.

First of all, I could be wrong. It is entirely possible that people would not feel this way. They could be like retired folk who feel like they have earned a break and are glad to take the rest of eternity off.

However, I see a problem with this. For the most part, throughout recorded history, those who have retired have been able to expect to live in a world at least remotely like the one they grew old in. Even if they were not able to master all the new technologies, they were fairly confident that the money they put away in the bank would continue to earn interest in the way that it had been doing for most of their lives. My retired mother, for example, has experienced some frustration learning how to use a computer, but she must realize that her survival doesn’t depend on it. The problem is that my mother has never thought of the singularity. When I was a child, and both my mother and I were much younger, I insisted that computers would one day be more intelligent than persons. She would respond with the usual argument that was popular at that time: “A computer with as much memory as a human brain would stretch from Los Angeles to New York.” We all know what happened to that argument!

In fifteen years, it will be much easier to convince people that a computer as intelligent as a person is possible. Moreover, the people that might need convincing will be much closer to understanding why. They will be accustomed to talking to computerized bank tellers that seem like they could pass the Turing test and they will be accustomed to playing interactive video games with simulated opponents that seem just a tad too sneaky. Furthermore, we will already have passed a significant number of landmarks like the defeat of Gary Kasparov by Deep Blue. One by one, bastions of human superiority will fall. A Computer will be installed in a car that can win an automobile race. Robots, perhaps offshoots of the Asimo line, will be built that can defeat any human at tennis. It will be possible for the average human to grasp that if all of these abilities could be combined into one machine, a machine would exist that can outperform a person at every designated task. The average human may not put two and two together, but they will be primed to make the intellectual leap.

Now, we introduce the journalists. Their audience will be primed, but it will be the journalists that push them past the threshold. Their audience will be ready to understand that if two is put together with two a sufficient number of times, eventually any predetermined digit will be achieved. The journalists will put two and two together for them, and we will have a population that understands that superhuman intelligence is not merely possible, but probably inevitable.

Next will come the TV special. It will be a TV special like “The Day After”, except that the topic, instead of nuclear war, will be the singularity. Somehow, the producers will find a way to make the singularity tangible. They will film it in such common surroundings, with such seamless special effects, and using technologies that are so familiar, that the average person will finally understand. Also, they will use many of the tactics that were used to present “The Day After”, like having it introduced and discussed by their regular news anchors. Starting from familiar territory, they will take their audience step by step through the events of the singularity, leaving no gaps for disbelief, until they reach some previously unimaginable and possibly terrifying result. To their audience, the singularity will no longer be an abstract idea that they heard mentioned in some boring news clip while they were channel surfing. It will be real, immediate, and personal. Most of all, they will understand that it is certain. Instead of being like pictures of starving children in a distant country that they couldn’t find on a map, it will be like the house payment they have to come up with by the end of the month to avoid repossession.

The fear will not come from ignorance. It will come from understanding. It will come from the cold hard realization that when you buy something on credit you eventually get the bill. They will have a picture in their heads of the world being transformed over night into something completely alien. They will see scenes like scenes from the movie Matrix, but with one vital difference: they will be in the scene, it will be all around them, and there will be no green fluorescent exit sign at the corner of the theatre. There is a saying: no matter where you go, there you are. But in their minds, they will already be there.

When this happens, people will start talking earnestly with pastors, ministers, priests, psychologists, techno-savvy neighbors, and close friends: “What are you doing to prepare for the singularity?” It will be like that odd short-lived experience right before the advent of the year 2000 when otherwise normal people were buying lots of canned food and emergency candles. The major difference will be that no one will know what to buy. How does one prepare for the Apocalypse? There will be news specials and talk shows that capitalize on this new interest. Talk show hosts like Oprah Winfrey will be interviewing singularitarians who think they know the answer. A fair number of them will undoubtedly come right out and say that there is no answer. Others will say that there is no need to be concerned about the singularity because the antichrist will be along any minute now to start putting marks on people’s heads.

We will have a bunch of confused, frightened, neo-survivalists with a LOT of free time on their hands. The old adage about idle hands being the devils workshop will take on a new meaning. Actually, if one could watch from a distance, it might be amusing to see how these little animals react when they are caught in the eye of a hurricane and have absolutely no idea what to do. A lot of them will be wondering if it would be better to die or risk being involuntarily uploaded. Others will decide that they simply must stop the singularity from coming. Many will protest but many others will turn to sabotage and terrorism—terrorism performed with state of the art weapons and state of the art “things” that were never meant to be used as weapons. We could have a lot of supercharged Theodore Kaczynski’s running around. This may or may not send the rest into panic: who knows what people will do in the face of such uncertainty. The end of life as we know it has never been done before. The problem is that the threat will not be certain death as in the movies WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE or ON THE BEACH. It will be the probability of something much stranger and possibly much worse. Star Trek’s Borg come to mind, but I can think of worse fates and I’m sure that the producers of popular science fiction will do better still. Death is strange, but strange is terrifying.

Oddly, it is not any of the aforementioned people that concern me. The simply frightened can be consoled and terrorist can be kept in check. The ones that really terrify me are the genuinely well-meaning and supposedly enlightened individuals that will think they know what is best for the rest of us. They will peddle old untested arguments that a cure for aging and natural death will result in a population explosion that will quickly fill the universe with people. Perhaps they will find a way to designate nearly all extraterrestrial matter as parkland, making the exploration and colonization of space unduly difficult. As a result, instead of enlightened hopeful people who expect a long life expanding in a sensible manner across the galaxy, we could have a lot of overcrowded short-timers who don’t believe in the future and just want to have a lot of unprotected sex. Perhaps, by resorting to the very issues that those interested in superhuman intelligence have raised, these well-meaning individuals will convince a sufficient percentage of humanity that superhuman intelligence is an environmental hazard. If they succeed, they may prevent us from finding key solutions to environmental and overcrowding problems just when we need them the most. Instead of superhuman intelligence being developed by responsible well supervised institutions, it will be developed by the very worst people: outlaws who, by definition, do not respect such restrictions. This could be the very way that superhuman intelligence gets out of hand and leads to something like the gray goo problem.

Like I said at the beginning, maybe none of this will happen: no one knows how people will react in the face of such uncertainty. All I am sure of is that this is an experiment that will be done only once in the history of the world—possibly in the history of the universe—and there are absolutely no precedents.

Scott

The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 10/01/2003 6:00 PM by unjohn

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Early in 55, John von Neumann was invited by Yale to give the Silliman Lectures during the spring term of 56. In August he was diagnosed with cancer. John never made the lectures, but this
book was the manuscript for them. He died in February 8, 57. I read this book in 65 and it changed my life. I knew I was more than a just a body, heart and brain. Von Neumann computed that it would take 2.8*10**20 bits to equal the human memory. He also suggested:

"The underlying componentry of the memory need not be the same as that of the basic active organs."

Human memory and consciousness is not contained in the brain.

The real point of Singularity will be when a non-couscious computer reports back to a conscious human that it has connected into where our memory and consciousness are located. This will be like a baby being born, taking that first breath.

Of course the question is: where to look?

Perhaps most of us still think that it is in our brain and are looking there.

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 12/31/2003 6:38 PM by jontait

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Where should we look for consciousness then? Maybe we should listen to our brothers and sisters because our _soul_ lives in God's realm. How can we look there? A better question: how can it affect us here?

Consciousness is most likely an emergent phenomenon associated with the physical arrangement of energy/matter. The juxtoposition of this information interacting and reacting to each other in parallel causes impressions, sensations, and probably even notions. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts my brother, but not greater than the parallel interactions and relationships among parts. You should know this, you've read Von Neuman.

Can we agree that it is physical phenomenona that make up our brains, and by extension our minds? Can you envision a dynamical system "bootstrapping" itself simply by relative motion? A motionless brain is a dead brain. Come to think of it, a motionless universe would probably also be a dead universe. Convenient coincidences, no doubt. This is a foundation we can work with.

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 03/04/2004 4:47 AM by bodebliss

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

The advanced capabilities of an intelligent machines will likely be fast human intelligence,not a leap forward in consciousness.
Having said that it will still do 9.8 million years of lineal human thought process /year of operation. This is because a signal travels in the human brain at 100 feet/sec and in an electronic brain at over 980,000,000 ft/sec.The achievement of artificial intelligence will be the singularity as we zoom into a future of unknowable possibilities. Still a leap in consciuosness along the way would be icing on the cake.The only prob is in all the sciofictish I've seen the drab-low gen populous always rises and destroys the creation or attainer at the moment of fruition. Don't tell me you guys haven't been exceptionalized because your brighter than the norm. Average Joe, Jane hates us.'cause we's smart. The same will be true of mind boggling development.

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 03/04/2004 12:30 PM by /:setAI

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

The only prob is in all the sciofictish I've seen the drab-low gen populous always rises and destroys the creation or attainer at the moment of fruition


if we are talking about a "strong singularity" where over the course of a picosecond or two a metaconscious network hits a rapid exponentiation and resynthesises itself into the very Aether/spacetime/quantum foam and thus transcends matter/energy/space/time- then it will be difficult for chimp-cousins to destroy the machine-

first the "machine" would no longer posess any meaningful physicality- being woven into the quantum aether itself- secondly they would likely be ripped apart and reconstructed with the passing wavefront of singularity-space- so the humans first awarness of It's existence would actually be the process of being eaten by It- too late to act

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 03/05/2004 3:10 AM by bodebliss

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

:setAI

You might have a point afterall in the movies
LawnMower Man made it, didn't he?

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 03/05/2004 5:20 PM by /:setAI

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

except in the sequel he turned into Max Headroom and had a lame crime adventure with a bunch of kids (>_<)

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 10/04/2004 11:23 PM by digitalthinker

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I have been thinking of the idea of merging whatever's left of humanity into a single collective, or there being artificial intelligence which surpasses that of humans and makes humans inferior. BUT, some important questions arise, which are rather hard to adress and to even imagine a higher intelligence actually performing.

Think of the idea of logic. The machine needs very simple (and I mean as simple as on/off, yes/no, 1/0) impulses which are fed into logical circuits which determine the next course of action based on how the logic interpretation has been predetermined by the creator. For those who have studied how a computer works from the ground up, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. From these circuits spring up interfaces which go higher and higher in levels and allow complex low level instructions to be executed with a very simple one. With this we get the higher, simpler, and less fussy interfaces which allow for rather general thinking and computation to occur. Seems reasonable right? The machine should think for itself if we can keep building levels and creating logic on each level which feeds the one above and eventually something human can be created, where the lower level layers are independent, such as bodily function (you don't remind yourself to inhale/exhale or tell your heart to beat..unless you're seriously ill, and I hope nobody here is!).

Eventually a level higher than that of human will be reached, where as mentioned, many calculations more can be done at once than a human brain can tollerate. At this point we have a superior being, but do we really?

I've noticed one thing about humanity: As we evolve into a higher state of human evolution, where we think clearer, put wars aside, and look for new battlefronts, we tend to lose the natural emotion which makes us "human" in the first place. For those who seek knowledge, many wind up unhappy with the "magic" of a field of interest when they learn all there is about it (or all that made them excited about it in the first place) which means that humans themselves will eventually be stripped of all emotion, and will approach what we describe as the singularity. For a superior mind to exist, emotion needs to be put aside, and humanity needs to be lost. The imagination will be fueled by the self need to know and understand, and will become artificial in a way that it's driven by need rather than will.

The problem with the machine is that it cannot imagine. It followed pre-determined instructions which simulate how a mind works. Sure the humans operate on electrical impulses, but there is something that we don't know as to what drives these impulses which still keeps the secret of our existance and purpose from us (and thus the meaning of life).

I think the singularity doesn't have to come from the machine world, but it will come from the human world. With each new generation of children, there is less and less focus on emotional development, and most children are pushed to succeed in life which is given to them, to become the best, the brightest, the richest, the smartest. All of these things take away time from emotional development, and it's already pretty observable with today's children that emotion is slowly starting to be replaced with the need for pleasure, and entertainment. Basically, humans become the machines themselves, and considering that the capitalistic world favors this for its own gains, it's no wonder that this is a direction we're heading towards.

Someone mentioned that our existance would become empty once singularity's level is reached, and that might not be far from the truth. If anyone observes themselves, they'll notice that there is a desire towards something that brings them happiness. If all of these desires are filled, and exhausted, there's nothing left to look forward to, and considering humans are pleased with overcoming challenge, then in singularity's case, all challlenged will be overcome in time, and in the end existance itself will become unneccessary, which will be self induced by the logic that makes it up (this is where the crap from the begining ties in) will decide that all has been a ccomplished. If all is accomplished, and there is no reason to exist, then existance itself will become unneccessary and such a mind would shut down/self destruct, or become destructive in a sense that everything that exists needs to dissappear for the final stage of existance (which is non-existance) to be completed, and for the singularity to stop.

A destructive side is certainly not beneficial in any way to anyone, not to the singularity itself, but even this property can once again be traced back to the humans. If you observe history, it contains much much human destruction. Wars have plagued us for millenia where a person in power can make a decision for thousands of men and send them to their deaths, sometimes just for their sheer amusement. That's mostly evident with the Roman Empire, and even today, where reality TV in all it's glory is showing people being arrested, their lives publically destroyed for the sake of entertainment, etc. which goes to show that there's a demand for human suffering for the sake of entertainment, and that humans feed on watching others suffer. This says something very bad about us as a collective, we've become incredibly destructive! Rather than taking pride in something we create and help perpetuate humanity's evolution, we take pleasure in all that's wrong for the reasons of being destructive. If the humans don't evolve to the point of singularity, they will deslf destruct. If this happens, there's the idea of complete chaos consuming all that's left of the human mind because higher desires have overcome the conscious and the subconscious, or there's the possibility of overcoming this early enough where such a realization will fuel an evolutionary state in the opposite direction, and either avoid the destruction of ourselves, reach singularity, or take a whole new unexplored path.

These are a few thrown-together and not very well thought through ideas to think about, but they are here to suggest singularity being our human state of evolution which will come next which will shun emotion and use the lack of it to become a more efficient being as one, or as a collective.

I can't really imagine some of the ideas some people here have presented (as in picture it mentally) but logically such an evolutionary step seems proper, just a matter of how long it will take to arrive, and how it will affect our future, whether humans will become obsolete, and the idea of the Matrix movies becomes a reality (perhaps the humans will "wake up" and fight to retain what's assumed to be ours, possibly even working against themselves, if the singularity really IS the right way for us to end up).

Vlado

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 10/04/2004 11:59 PM by digitalthinker

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I just thought of this: In the Japanese Anime series "Evangelion" there was an idea which suggested a computer which made decisions for the entire Tokyo3 living area which was based on its inventor. The inventor set the computer into 3 portions, one to represent her as a woman, one as her as a mother, and the last as her as a scientist (I might be wrong with the exactness, it's been a few years, but the idea is right of contradicting ideaologies). This just poped back in my head on the note of superhuman artificial intelligence, where such an idea with opposing ideaologies being implemented could in the end be used to calculate the "greater good" result and think more like a human. If you imagine how we think, it's usually a response based on our current emotional state coupled with the problem at hand, the severity, etc.

Just thought I'd bring that up as another idea to toss around.

The human brain is a moving target
posted on 10/05/2004 10:57 AM by grantcc

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

The brain of any man or woman is in a constant state of flux. The following article gives some idea of how nebulous the concept of a single organ that runs everything in the body is.

http://www.sci-con.org/articles/20040601.html

The Brain as a global workplace
posted on 10/05/2004 11:09 AM by grantcc

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Here's another way to look at the brain:

http://www.sci-con.org/editorials/20031002.html

Re: The Brain as a global workplace
posted on 10/05/2004 7:54 PM by grantcc

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

P.S. "workplace" above should be "workspace."

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 10/26/2004 10:59 PM by digitalthinker

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Oh yeah, forgot to post this a while ago, but here goes anyways.

According to one of my recently developed theories, the singularity fits in as a time when we will become like "gods". What do I mean by this? One of my theories of "existence" (just to make you happy :D) goes on to say that once we gain a full understanding of the universe, then we've learned everything there is to learn. When we know how everything works in our physical and mental realm, then we've reached the state of "perfection" where there is nothing left to uncover and ultimately live for.

When this happens, perhaps we trancend into the next upper state of being, which is that of our creator. This would help explain the idea behind the immortals that people keep ranting about on the boards here, and would open up doors to other impossibilities which only seem possible once we understand everything that IS possible in our reality.

Not only would we trancend into this greater being, but that world will then seem very natural to us, and would ultimately give us a whole new set of challenges to uncover. Once that world or reality has been completely understood, then we move on up again.

I also thought about something that popped up in my question regarding volumes of integrals in calculus with my proffessor, and he mentioned when you make a cut along an axis in the 4th dimension, you get a 3 dimensional object back (picture cutting a 4-d sphere to get a segment at point x, you'd get a 3d object back...same works with 3d, cut it, and you get 2d object back, cut 2d, and get 1d object back..etc). This "loosely" gave me the idea of these higher states. Perhaps we cannot percieve what the next world of upper existence is until we're there, and since it's higher up, we can't even visualize it or understand it (just like we can't even imagine what a 4th dimensional set of vectors looks like even if it's right in front of us, our minds just don't work that way).

Since we don't understand this state, we need to make sure we can understand everything there is about our current state of being and all that influences it, to be able to make solid imaginable ideas on what comes next...sorta like trying to see into the future with infinite factors affecting it.

Anyways, considering that this "singularity" idea is trying to say that our ability to discover at half the time it took us to do the same ammount of discovery and technological evolution than before, then eventually we'll reach a point where everything will be known (sort of like a function approaching an asymptote). Perhaps this is the time when everyone and everything molds and trancends into the next reality, thus our creator's reality.

Anyways, just some food for thought. I'd love to actually explain this in detail using all of my life knowledge to make it seem more possible and why it seems like it's something even imaginable, but last time I did that it turned into a 2.5 hour discussion, and typing all that out would leave my wrists crippled for life :D Might as well be a bastard and just give you some bait to think on ;)

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 04/29/2005 4:25 PM by bodebliss

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

"Perhaps we cannot percieve what the next world of upper existence is until we're there,"

More than likely, no. My idea is it will be an extention of what we already have. In other words, the human mind is built on pattern recognition so, the next level will be something like full visual memory, being able to know the whole movie shortly after the first 5 minutes, being able to predict what a person you've just met has been and will do after the 1st minute of talking to them, vastly increase sensual perceptions, and so on.

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 10/26/2004 10:37 PM by Cyprian

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I've made it my personal crusade the correct the misspelling of "existence."

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 10/26/2004 10:46 PM by digitalthinker

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

I tend to hurry along too often and get that one wrong (seems with more years of English exprience under my belt, I tend to make more mistakes. Guess once something becomes second nature, there's less emphasis on perfecting it :P)

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 07/31/2005 12:42 PM by dgwhite

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

"Human memory and consciousness is not contained in the brain."

I believe this statement is correct and, further, that it will be born out through a fuller understanding of fields. See Rupert Sheldrake's "The Presence of the Past: Morphic Resonance and the Habits of Nature" -- http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892 81537X/qid=1122827158/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-551286 5-1865732?v=glance&s=books

Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 01/02/2007 9:13 PM by eldras

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Sir with respect that is gibberish.

I met Sheldrake years ago; thought he was wrong. Quizzed him. Was certain he was wrong, but advocated that he should be supported to test out his idea.

He personally told me that God would be proved to exist scientifically by 2000.

That didn't happen.

Morpphic resonance is another fallacy the idea of mysterious telepathy-type interconnections between organisms and of collective memories within species.

Epigenetics ...how the DNA is expressed ewxplains that.

Consciousness is defined as the predictive modeling ability of a system, and memory is simply stored retrievable patterns, with intelligence simply memory manipulation, and learning memory modification

We can and are building all of them into robots.


But the opening article on this thread is a brilliant read,

Cheers

Eldras
London A.I. Club




Re: The Singularity versus The Location of Memory
posted on 01/03/2007 8:15 AM by dgwhite

[Top]
[Mind·X]
[Reply to this post]

Wow, a reply a year and a half later to a post I'd completely forgotten!

Anyway, I continue to find the notion of fields (which physics cannot explain) a fascinating field of study (no pun intended) and can't help but wonder if those "stored retrievable patterns" might not be accessible in ways we don't yet understand. If so, then it could explain a great many things that we presently cannnot.

I'm an empiricist, by the way, and not given to psycho-babble. But as so much remains unexplained when it comes to consciousness, memory, intelligenc e, etc., that I expect we'll be surprised by the answers -- which we will one day discover, I feel certain, perhaps on the other side of the Singularity.

In any case, good luck with your work!