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Origin >
Living Forever >
Radical body design "Primo Posthuman"
Permanent link to this article: http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0405.html
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Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
Primo 3M+ is a prototype future body, a conceptual design with superlongevity in mind. Primo by design is multi-functional. It is reliable, changeable, upgradeable, and complete with enhanced senses. Primo is the new designer body.
Originally posted 2002 and excerpted from www.natasha.cc/primo.htm. Published on KurzweilAI.net February 22, 2002.
If you could design your own body--give it any shape, size, color, contour, texture and elegant design--what would you choose?
What if your body could regenerate healthier, fresher skin and substitute worn out tendons, ligaments and joints with replaceable ones? What if your body was as sleek, as sexy, and felt as comfortable as your new automobile? These are just a few of the questions to consider in the decades ahead.
Primo 3M+ 2002 -- More comfort, better performance, lower price.The architecture of Primo's physique is designed for mobility, flexibility and longevity. Primo is being considered for the 2002 Smithsonian Summary/Fall Design Exposition.
We like to think of it as a cross between Frank Lloyd Wright, Le Corbusier and Valentine. The collaborative scientific team that designed Primo includes Max More, Marvin Minsky, Robert Freitas, Michael Rose, Greg Fahy, Ralph Merkle, Alexander Sasha Chislenko, Roy Walford, Gregory Benford, Robin Hanson, Vernor Vinge, and Hans Moravec.
Primo's radical body design is more powerful, better suspended and more flexible--its body offering extended performance and modern style. The expansive interior provides advanced metabrain and enhanced senses. Our nano-engineered spinal communication system runs under the guidance of networked AI with a wide range of optional features.
Warranty: Additional twenty-fourth chromosomal pair. Guaranteed for any genetic defects. Immune system guaranteed against all known pathogens. Return-Exchange Policy:Replacement body upon request. Disclaimer: Abused body will be replaced at owner's expense. We reserve the right to replace with a used model.PrimoStar System:Unlimited service calls. Service range located within Asteroid Belt.
Comparison ChartThe human body is undergoing change. Plastic surgery, prosthetics, robotics, electronic and digitized vocal chords, implants for hearing, chemicals to adjust and fine-tune brain functioning, genetics and genetic engineering, and cloning organs are ways to augment and upgrade our physique. The human life span is going to increase as well our desire for vitality. With this in mind, it is advantageous to augment with a sense of aesthetics and approach the future physique like a design comprised of elegant strokes.
The following compares the 20th Century Human Body with the 21st Century future physique of our conceptualized body design Primo 3M+.
| 20th Century -- Body | 21st Century -- Primo 3M+ |
| Limited life span | Ageless |
| Legacy genes | Replaceable genes |
| Wears out | Upgrades |
| Random mistakes | Error-correction device |
| Sense of humanity | Enlightened transhumanity |
| Intelligence capacity: 100 trillion synapses | Intelligence capacity: 100 quadrillion synapses |
| Single track awareness | Multiple viewpoints running in parallel |
| Gender-restricted | Gender changeability |
| Prone to environmental damage | Impervious to environmental damage |
| Corrosion by irritability, envy, depression | Turbocharged optimism |
| Elimination messy and gaseous waste | Recycles and purifies waste |
Nanotech data storage memory system
Error Correction device, replay and feedback system
High-bandwidth awareness powered by 100 quadrillion-synapse nanocomputing brain.
Error-corrected memory replay.
Global Net connection with remote neural access guarded by security protocol.
Embedded high-throughput contradiction detectors.
Prosthetic neo-neocortex designed by AI and interwoven with nanobots.
Polysensory modalities sort new data over existing and additional channels.
Nano-optical neurons process thoughts one million times faster than outdated bio-brains.
Continual monitoring of internal bodily functions with emergency repair on call.
Energystar-compliant operation, with autosleep mode.
Extended short-term memory (remains functional even if tipsy). Primitive clinical neurochemical modification starting in the 1950s.
Anti-tremor electrode implants, late 1990s.
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Network sonar sensors map data
Infrared/ultraviolet-sensitive high-acuity single-photon-detecting, acceleration-resistant eyeballs.
Enhanced reality visual overlays through retinal implants allow you to view information on top of physical objects.
You can also edit your visual experience, removing unsightly objects and morphing scenes into images of your choice.
Sensory input can be patched in through global Net connection, allowing viewing of remote locations from Webcams, space telescopes, and flying micro-cameras.
External visual input gives you eyes in the back of your head. Magnifying lens, by Roger Bacon, 1267.
Eyeglasses, by Salvino D'Armate, 1291.
Contact lenses sketched, Leonardo da Vinci, 1508.
First cataract removal, 1748.
Toric contact lenses approved for use, 1978.
Corneal sculpting, 1990s.
Silicon retinal implants, 1999.
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Broadly tuned polymer chemical sensor arrays that emulate mammalian olfactory receptor neurons.
Electronic/artificial nose can detect and classify odors, vapors and gases. The augmented biological nose to electronic smart nose stage is composed of a chemical sensing system along with pattern recognition to work in correlation to enhance memory via smell association.
The electronic nose protects and warns owner of potential danger as well as adds to visual replay recognition via smell association.
A multi-disciplinary approach by CalTech to design an electronic nose spans neurobiology, chemistry and electronic engineering. The goal is to develop construction of a silicon "nose on a chip."
"The olfactory receptors are proteins that sit on the surface of your nerve cells, in the upper reaches of your nasal cavity." (Digsents)
The molecules entering your nose bind sense these proteins, triggering a cascade of events. As a result, signals are transmitted to your brain, where we experience smell.
Experts say that humans (and early transhumans) smell anywhere from 3000-4000 to 10,000-30,000 smells. According to neuroscientist Dr. Stuart Firestein, we can "detect and discriminate between 10,000 different chemicals which we commonly call 'odors.' This is probably the most sophisticated chemical detector that we know of."
"Smells and scents elicit very strong messages to human sensory networks. They can evoke vivid memories that have long been buried in our subconscious. The sense of smell is often the first sense alerted to danger or even slight changes in the environment." (Ruef)
As animal species became more complex, creatures continued to use their sense of smell to find food and water, evade predators, track prey, and recognize and attract mates. In 600 BC, nasal reconstruction was done by using a forehead flap over a nasal defect. (Samhita Sushruta, India).
Much later, in the late 1800s, improvements in anesthesia techniques encouraged surgeons to augment the nose with such materials as paraffin, gold, silver, aluminum, platinum, porcelain, celluloid, ivory, cork and some stones from the Black Sea.
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Increased frequency range and parabolic hearing
External wiring and internal intelligent agents able to receive and send audio messages on 24-hour Net interface. Metabrain's internal connections allow for sense overlay to morph voice, which is used for privacy and to mask identity.
Digital signal processors reduce extraneous noise and enhance signal, easily pick out specific voices in a crowded room.
Frequency-selectable ultrasonic and infrasonic frequency (there is much significant information below 20 Hz, especially on emotional states). This info has to be tunable to prevent neural overload.
Convert grating voices into dulcet tones, or hook into enhanced reality system to convert unwanted sounds into visual data (neighboring conversations turn into a light rain). Speaking tubes, 1700s.
Ear trumpets, 1800s.
Hearing aids, 1900s.
Cochlear bionic implants, 1960s.
Digital signal processing, 1984.
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The smart Skin of the future combines the historical evolutionary role of survival from the earliest of human ancestors, the Australopithecus, to our future Posthuman whose survival will be conditioned to a far different world than we realize today. The architecture of this transition is both biological, as our genes shape our lives, and technological, as we merge and mingle more and more with the technology around us.
It is also self-directed, as our intellectual capacity and our need to problem solve, progress, and survive lies at the forefront of our human nature. The smart skin of the future will be a multi-functional design coalescing safety and survival, sensation and texture, beauty and elegance, fluidity and mobility, and terraced layers of what we know as the "self." It will function as an exterior protection and interior multi-function; it will combine artificial and natural design options; fuzzy membrane, both natural and synthetic; a sensorial surface; and ultimately square the curve of design.
Solar protected skin with tone and texture changeability.
Biosensors externally stimulate atmospheric tensions.
Active integument management system keeps all outer surfaces totally smooth and wrinkle free (unless you choose wrinkles for effect), and maintains maximal suppleness and instant response to sudden demands for stretch and twist.
Color control for instant blending in or standing out. Optional silicon carbide sheath enables you to become almost invisible.
ActiveSkin makes clothing unnecessary and allows you to display written or pictorial messages to convey mood. Historically, humans have been augmenting the skin with the use of dyes, tattoos, and piercings for mating, fertility, hunting, fighting, and religious rituals.
The first tissue successfully engineered and made available to people was skin.
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Evolving Internal Communication at the speed of technology
Whole-body communications navigation grid with one communicyte (cell) stationed every 100 microns apart in the tissue, providing 60 billon communicytes with a peak power consumption of 60 watts.
1,000,000 terabit/sec optical backbone (one billion times more capacity than a human spinal cord).
Exquisite conscious perception of internal physical states, including spatial orientation, hormone levels, neural firing patterns.
Hear your body speaking!
Neuromuscular control allows you to use thumb and forefinger as calipers, measuring distance to micrometers. In-vivo fiber optic communications backbone running from head to toe with a transmission capacity of 1018 bits/sec., linked to distributed extra neural tissue, giving a total of 1023 bits of information (about 60,000 times the sum total of all 20th Century human knowledge).
Nanodiamond-laced spine provides multi-ton load capacity.
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Flow and function monitoring.
Cardiac function augmented by high-powered turbine capable of pushing enriched blood through the body five times faster than a human heart.
The heart can be shut down and entirely replaced by the cardiac turbine, ending unfashionable pulses
Pressured nanobubbles contain extra oxygen supply to allow continued function for several hours in case of heart failure or drowning. First heart transplant by Dr. Christiaan Barnard, 1967.
Jarvic Heart, late 1970s.
First heart transplant with bi-ventricular assist device (BVAD) 1998.
Testing of a battery-powered implantable total artificial heart (TAH) 2001
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The prosthetic whole-body vehicle is directed by sensory nanoscale mechanics.
Structural architecture is fluid.
All limbs permit 360° of motion. Anti-inflammatory drugs for osteoarthritis.
Physical exercise for flexibility.
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Meets the latest EPA guidelines for environmentally-friendly elimination.
Emission control system reduces outgassing and muffles sounds.
Highly tuned digestion continually removes toxins, eliminating colon cancer and other diseases.
Adjustable buttock firmness ensures seated comfort in all circumstances, no matter how rough the terrain.
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Re: Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
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This technology is all great, but do we really want to live forever? I have to admit, the idea has some appeal to me, particularly since a state of nonexistence is, I think, inconceiveable for any being that's only ever aware of existence. Death is the absolute end of everything that we have ever known, and no matter how advanced we become, we can never master nonexistence. We can avoid it, probably indefinitely, but no matter what body I have, no matter what computer my mind inhabites, I'm still mortal. I'm still capable of dying with my material body, so regardless of what technology we have sort of some kind of immaterial existence, there can be no immortality.
But I digress. My original question was whether or not we WANT to live forever, not if we can actually do it. I'm not sure if I would want to or not. As I said, the prospect has a certain appeal. I think the reasoning for most people is this: if we could live forever, then we would have all the time to do whatever we want and never grow old and suffer. This would be true, assuming that the universe is inifinite. It would have to be, otherwise, given an inifnite amount of time, we'd exhaust all the potential activities we could do an inifinite number of times over. I wouldn't bank on the universe being infinite, though, because at our current level of knowledge, it could be just about any size. Between any given number and inifinity are an inifinite number of sizes, if one of those numbers is inifinity and there's equal probability of each one being true, then the odds of the universe being infinitely large are literally one in inifinity against. Even if it was, it may just be a whole lot of empty real estate or the nature of the universe may confine us to what we can currently observe. But who knows, maybe physics will impress us yet.
Besides what we'll actually do with all our free time, immortality will irreperably change the very nature of humanity. I believe that the reason why we are able to make value judgements, be they subjective or moral, is because we know that we suffer and die. In trying to assign some kind of meaning to our seemingly pointless lives, we ask all sorts of questions and make decisions about virtue, justice, good and evil, and other ideals to give our lives paramaters by which to live in our search for meaning. Perhaps we all just want happiness in the limited time we have. Either way, immortality may change all that. Immortals want happiness, too, but I think they may get bored after a little taste of infinity. I forget who it was who said "Hell is spending an eternity locked in a room with all your best friends." My point is that most people want immortality to live extraordinary lives, and I think it takes a mortal to appreciate the simpler pleasures.
Anyway, in light of this, I think I'll keep my mortality. It might be nice to live longer, maybe even a few hundred years, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Besides, in the cosmic scheme of the universe, it really doesn't matter what happens to me. My death or my immortality can only ever effect humanity. |
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Re: Radical body design\"Primo 3M+\"
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Grant
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My error. Thanks for the clarification and explanation. I didn't intend to twist your words out of context. I was taught to respect my elders, and I come here in peace. I thought for a second you were heading down a different path, and it kinda took me by surprise, as if you had tossed in the towel on humanity.
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In considering the the scenerios you illustrate above, it is predictable that next millenium is going to be anything but boring, and I don't envision humankind will ever have too much of a good thing. With the advances we have made this far have come increasing complexity. With every new technology we develop come new questions and more problems. In my mind, that is the good news. If I were to sit around on a cloud plucking my harp day after day, that to me would be worse than hell. There has never been, and never will be, any shortage of opportunity to produce every increasing values and infinite happiness.
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I recall a story told by my father of a man who died and woke up in the most beautiful place you could imagine. He was met by a man who provided his every wish. He asked for a bottle of wine, and was brought the finest. He asked for a mansion and was given the most exquisit palace one could imagine with the finest accessories, swimming pools, and a driveway paved with gold. He was surrounded by the most beautiful women he had ever seen. Everything he requested was provided for him. He never had to lift a finger.
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On one particular day his host noticed that the man seemed to be bored and unhappy, and asked the man what it was that he wanted. After thinking for a moment, the man replied; \"This is worse than hell!\" His is host replied; \"Where do you think you are?\"
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San Diego is not that far from Salt Lake, but I have only been there on several occasions. That was about 18 years ago. A beautiful place as I remember, and sad to hear it is getting trashed.
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If I we can turn back your biological clock about 50 years and clean up the beach, would you consider sticking around for another couple hundred years? We could have big parties, and it would get us chicks!
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Anti-aging with viral vectors?
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With regards to "turning back the biological clock..."
With our growing understanding of retroviruses and the human genome, could it be possible to engineer viral vectors that specifically replace the genes assosciated with aging with other nucleotide sequences, even in adult organisms? (Viral DNA already constitutes a significant portion of the human genome, demonstrating the viability of these types of vectors.) We already have a solid understanding of what causes aging in many species, including humans - if ALL genetic factors involved in programmed cell death were removed, even complex organisms should be able to continue repairing themselves, much like bacterial cell lines, which seem to have unlimited longevity.
Understandably, there would be many hurdles in the path of this technology, including initial immune rejection and the need for very careful "rewrites" of the perhaps polycistronic aging sequences. Hopefully, computer technology will continue to advance so that we may have accurate models for approximating the effects of our changes on the nucleotide sequences.
Additionally, we would have to exert very precise control over the behavior of such a virus - perhaps finding a way to discourage any type of lytic activity. (We could utilize non-lytic viruses so that they do not damage the infected cells, then clone trillions of copies in vitro for each treatment, letting the blood stream disperse them.)
I'm only a high school student, so my understanding is limited...if you have more background in this area, please enlighten me. I'm very interested in what all of you think - do you consider it plausible?
Thanks,
Jessica Polka |
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Re: Anti-aging with viral vectors?
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Your proposal brings many problems with it;
White blood cells recognise significantly changed DNA as cancer
If you can change the white blood cells appropriately, how do you modify the white blood cells to carry _two_ sets of genes, one 'old', one 'new', and recognise oth as good
What about cells who are in the process of changine?
If you do this all at once, you must have different RNA for _every body part, as it's the RNA, as I understand, that picks which genes to duplicate and make say, skin cells, or type 2 muscle cells. This is considerably a higher challenge than modifying just one set, at the beginning.
Your proposed soup of viruses would immediately send the modify-ee's immune system into an uproar, and kill them with shock.
With much more advanced medecine, and an ability to somehow temporarily, completely suppress the immune system, it may be possible.
Any other thoughts?
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Re: Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
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Alright, maybe I was taking things to their logical extreme when I said live forever. But with a robotic body, why not? I mean, if all you had to do was replace the aging organs, or download yourself into a different body...then sure, you probably could conceivably live forever.
Not that I'd want to, and I don't know many people who would.
Anyway, I think we really should focus more on fixing some of our current problems. We still have poverty, pollution, warfare, and social disparity...I think or obligation is toward improving the quality of life before we try to lengthen it. And when I say life, I don't just mean the life of the individual. We need to stabilize and improve the condition of our civilization before we try to lengthen or own lifetimes. After all, living for a really long time would be kind of pointless if the world you live in is miserable.
-Dan
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Re: Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
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>My original question was whether or not we WANT to live forever, not if we can actually do it. I'm not sure if I would want to or not. As I said, the prospect has a certain appeal. I think the reasoning for most people is this: if we could live forever, then we would have all the time to do whatever we want and never grow old and suffer. <
The concept of superlongevity is becoming grass roots. If not through the recent watershed advances in medicine and biotechnologies, than certainly through the media-rich periodicals that put words like 'immortality' on the cover of Time, Newsweek, etc. We will do it, but not by single-tracking the cultural and economic landscape.
Here are some possibilities on the front end: (1) life extension enhancing the 'quality' of life for those living with the full extend of the current life span; (2) biotechnology determining which genes turn on and off aging; (4) genetic engineering successfully eliminating certain life threatening diseases; (3) replaceable body parts prolonging life past biological capabilities; (4) cryonics ability to revive suspended patients; (4) nanomedicine integrating successfully with biology. Once we live past what has been considered to be our life span, living to 200 or 500 will be inconsequential. Further out, the face of time will change.
Certainly, those who do not desire a longer life would not be pushed to live longer, although a person could feel a certain peer pressure into living hundreds of years. A person might want to worship a particular belief system that supports death. No one should be coerced to live longer than he or she chooses.
An important factor is to preserve human compassion and freedom of choice.
Natasha Vita-More
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Re: TransArt versus rational priorities
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>. The only thing Plus about Mark is his grossly overweight bod.
You obviously haven't seen me in awhile. Ask Mr. Pizer about the success of my diet. In late 2000 I weighed 285 lbs. This morning I weighed 219. I've been adhering to an approximate hunter-gatherer diet because high-glycemic agricultural foods like grains, potatoes, beans, processed sugars and milk compromise my metabolism. Lean meats, canned salmon, the yolk-free eggwhite stuff you buy in cartons, fresh fruits & vegetables, black and green tea (sweetened with NutraSweet), and nuts like sunflower seeds and walnuts have sustained me for the past fourteen months or so. I find this diet quite agreeable.
[Defamatory comment deleted by list moderator]
I am trying to show through my EXAMPLE that I'm serious about trying to improve my survival chances. I'm not throwing a bunch of symbols on the Web, like some techno-shaman, in the hopes that they magically will ward off aging and death because I have good intentions. |
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Re: Transhumanist Arts - Finally art that thinks!
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The wealthy already do live longer; they can afford the best medical care, personal trainers, and so forth. Does that bother me? No more than it bothers me than the fact that they have a better car and house than I do. People kvetch about the "digital divide," but nowadays the computers we all drooled over a few years ago, while still suitable for most of what people do online, are considered so slow that people who refurbish computers for charitable organizations won't even take them, and you can find them in Goodwill stores...and dialup ISPs for $6/month. Some digital divide, eh? I say hurry up, let the wealthy have Primo 3+--the sooner they get it, the sooner versions will trickle down to the rest of us, like me. :)
Besides, the early adopters get to work the bugs out; surely all the class envious will want rich folks to be the beta testers! :) |
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Re: Transhumanist Arts - Finally art that thinks!
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Bev noted:
"What has this got to do with art? I wonder if anyone said to Warhol - Won't your painting of a can of soup give me lead poisoning if I look at your painting? ' Hey aa Vinci don't imagine too much your ideas might cost too much! -"
I think that it is necessary to discuss the social landscape in deliberations about art. Art, by its very nature, causes emotional responses.
If you read through the posts on this list, you will note individuals who are inspired by ideas and others who have an ax to grind. In the artworld, even negative responses are a sign that the work did hit a nerve and those who take the time to express their angst are encountering their own limitations. Their expressions of anger, fear, annoyance and frustration are somehow moved. They might not like that they are moved, or even appreciate that they are moved.
Now, if you would like to know how "Primo" fits into the scheme of things in the art world and in society, multi-track the relationship between arts and society. The purpose of the arts has been to communicate. Artists are communicators. We communicate ideas developed and arranged from individual insight about world around us. The way we communicate ideas is expressed in whichever art form or style (context) we choose and which we think best reflects or expresses the content.
Today, in the early 21st century, the most immediate, the most noteworthy, the most fascinating issues and circumstances are the evolution of the human in its merging with machines and the implications of AI and SI, biotechnology, superlongevity, etc. These issues become the core values, the themes, of Art. "Primo" as Michael Rose says, is at the center of the next massive ideological shift in society.
Art isn't just about depicting beauty in life, it is about expressing ideas. Art is a barometer of society and culture.
Natasha Vita-More
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Re: Transhumanist Arts - Finally art that thinks!
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"Today, in the early 21st century, the most immediate, the most noteworthy, the most fascinating issues and circumstances are the evolution of the human in its merging with machines and the implications of AI and SI, biotechnology, superlongevity, etc."
>right. especially to someone in the paktia province.<
The fighting in the southeastern Afghan province of Paktia is a tragic situation. Let me quote a journalist: "The contradictory stories told about the fighting in Gardez show the obstacles the coalition forces face in trying to decipher what is happening on the ground and why. The inclination to label one's opponents further underscores the difficulties in gathering good intelligence."
To put this metaphorically, those who are counter productive to transhumanist technologies are at a major disadvantage. You may scoff and stammer about how transhumanity is a useless waste of time, but it is transhumanity's intelligence which will make the world a better place to live. Without the technologies which can cure disease, help the poor and suffering, clean up the e toxic environment, resolve energy problems and help those with mental and emotional suffering, humanity cannot go forward and resolve any struggle ' including, but not limited to, war.
Your implications are counteractive to progress - the progress which is needed in territories such as Paktia and elsewhere in the world. Rather than labeling your opponents, it might be more fruitful to gather good intelligence.
Natasha Vita-More
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Re: Transhumanist Arts - Finally art that thinks!
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>first, i think transhumanity is fine, but it is a luxury of thought afforded to few.<
There is a misconception that positive ideas and pro-active possibilities are expensive and only availabe to the elite.
If you think that only a few can afford to life a healthier and longer life, you are mistaken. History has repeated shown that when a product hits the mainstream, its cost and therefore its price goes down considerably. Take the television, telephone and computer, for example. These three examples were at one time expensive and only available as luxury items. Today, these items are owned and used by the masses.
>i'm not opposed to technology. quite contrary. but let's not confuse vain notions of immortality with useful technology, unless primo also provides clean drinking water.<
The concept of "immortality" does ring of a vain notion - a fairy tale. "Superlongevity" is an obtainable goal. Our bodies today are moderately enhanced with basic technological upgrades, from the filings in our teeth to contacts for our eyes. These enhancements will become more advanced as technology is designed with the intent to improve, extend and save lives. Biotechnology will be the most useful application of technology in the spirit and the fortitude of invention because the medical applications of technology in saving lives.
>evolution is about adaptation, whether you are bacteria or mammal. transhumanism seeks to abandon human limits, but at the same time implies that there is something sacred about the human form and particularly the individual. it seems to be a particularly western view. does that mean that only western people who can afford to have these views are evolutionarily superior to the rest of the swiftly growing world? if so, come right out and state it.<
Yes, agreed. Evolution is about adapting to the environment. From the Australopithecus to the Human our ancestors have adapted and evolved. Transhumanism is about moving beyond human limits not abandoning them. I'm not sure I follow your "sacred" reference. Unless you are involved in religious belief systems, individuality is certainly the most essential and important aspect of being alive. For those who have religious beliefs and long for life after death and/or welcome a supernatural reality, I can certainly understand. This would make sense as to why you would be dubious or opposed to investing to human technological augmentation and why it would seem superfluous.
For those of us who love living life and welcome its challenges, being around for decades past the recognized human lifespan is a preferred option.
>second, i see i was perhaps on the mark about the photoshopped photo on http://www.natasha.cc/bodybuilder.htm, since it is now obscured by animation. flex!<
Ha ha! Yes, I intentionally animated words boldly on the PhotoShop jpg image so you would get that message.
The metaphor being that a person can try to camouflage or mask any aspect of him or herself at any moment - just as you have done with your email.
Natasha Vita-More
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Re: Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
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Primo is Radical. In reading various posts in this connection, it occurred to me how human nature repeats its behavior in response to various input -assaults,kindnesses,confusion,progress, etc.
A problem can not be solved at the level at which it is asked, I believe Einstein declared. So even as I am knocked back on my heels (aka ignorance,fear, anxiety, excitement, happiness)when confronted with new technologies, I am still open to imaginings that become realities for a common good. A Primo body could be the solution for a Primo world. I say, "Why not?" Another says, "No Way!" No Way offers no way. Primo offers some way. A positive human response is an evolution to "Primo " and I salute it.
And thank you KurzweilAI for recognizing its value and beauty.
Leigh Christian |
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Re: Radical body design "Primo" & Uploading
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"Why do you think uploading is a logical next step for copying the brain and transferring information to a more secure and durable format?"
Uploading (which is fully compatible with bodies, whether remotely driven or not) has the following advantages:
* it works *today*, assuming that cryonics works
* it allows you to participate in a richer reality, since unconstrained by physical laws but those of computational physics and co-evolution dynamics
* it could offer speedup factors to a million, resulting in more efficient utilization of time (depending on properties of our universe, our lifetime looks rather finite).
* uploading gives extra flexibility and safety, allowing remote incremental backups, mind morphing, trajectory forcing, teleportation within relativistic constraints, clean shutdown and resume, arbitrary adjustment of time base, and similiar
* with uploading body is an option, not a single choice
Eugene Leitl |
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Re: Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
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An interesting (an elaborate) thought experiment, but having a human shaped body (shell for carrying one's mind and sensory input) is really pointless. It is a large, gawky, unstable design that we just happend to be burdened with.
I would prefer to be a floating sphere with EM, if you spend time in an environment with an atmosphere, sonic, and chemical sensory input devices, as well as at *least* an EM output device (communication). Some form of physical environment modification (manipulator arms, or even some force-field/tractor beam assembly) would be the final thing really necessary.
For other things, like self-replication (of the physical shell, as well as the physical substrate on which the mind exists), it goes without saying that it would be necessary.
As supposed transhumanists, I think we can come up with better designs/shapes than the human body. It seems to me it is simply our human bias for this form that keeps us returning to it. |
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Re: Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
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At this stage, wisdom would recommend that a prototype body design resemble a human shape. Since we tend to sum up a situation within the first few seconds of meeting, an entity would currently be more successful in a human-type rendering rather than a vehicle designed explicitly to show-off its mechanics.
Primo, as a prototype design suggests a "serious fiction" undertone. In other words, many of Primo's presumed upgrades will indeed become available in the coming years, but are presently at the conceptualized stage. We do not have the technology to build it today and we certainly do not have the cultural awareness and understanding to fully welcome an alternative non-exclusive human body. However, this will not impede the realization of body designs, such as Primo, being built, and not to far away.
Most people today do not consider plastic surgery to be unnatural. This is a misconception. Plastic surgery has been used for decades upon decades to help individuals who have suffered damage to their bodies. Alternatively, cosmetic surgery performed by a plastic surgeon is sometimes, but not always, considered an unnatural process for reversing the damage of aging. And, even here, the acceptance of cosmetic surgery, or botox and other ways to revitalize a person's appearance, is becoming mainstream. My research shows this to be a fact.
>We are social creatures. We live on the acceptance of ourselves into the communal whole. To be more efficient but not accepted by others to most may be considered death.<
There are many, many levels and layers of social standing. Even within the most rigid, traditional social settings, people are looking for and wanting change. In that most of the rigid social settings are comprised of individuals who have wealth, these are the same individuals who want to extend and improve their lives, by and large.
>Who may argue with time? Place a water drop of life in a pond and wait a few million years and you will have what the environment has modeled. Our design has been built from scratch to suit our world. We are capable of adapting to virtually anything.<
Yes, well said. As our environments change, so shall we.
>Perhaps that would be an interesting thread to begin: "What would be the most efficient shape?"<
I'm rather comfortable with the present human shape at the moment, although I certainly am not at all pleased with the rusty mechanics and tardy processes it performs. I'd like to think faster, and be better at telling jokes -:)
Thank you for your comments.
Natasha Vita-More
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Please don't read me.
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My great grandmother died yesterday. She was the tip of a pyramid spanning 5 generations. Saturday they will bury her body under 6ft. of dirt in a parched cemetary.
I feel my own vitality dim a shade with each passing day. The dirt is calling me because Heaven is beyond my human-based comprehension. The prospect of superlongevity has gone from an ongoing interest to my wildest fantasy. I could see the headlines now . . .
"GREATEST MAN TO EVER NOT DIE?"
Paul Zain does it again with his latest and greatest breaktrough yet --Ecstasyzain-- the safe drug that can be calibrated to the user's preferred intensity and will tailor each of it's tantric effects to the biochemical synergy of other nearby users. Millions will experience this bliss once the implant hits global markets in the next 48 hours (pending the mandatory 24 hour FDA approval).
Mr.Zain is no stranger to innovation. The self described painter, producer, director, actor, model, rockstar, writer, political leader, nano-molecular architect, philantropist, husband, father, porn-star, astronaut, intergalactic journalist, and all around good guy first debuted with his breakthrough film "Amores Robot" over 223 years ago.
--
I'm a person who likes to push my body to it's limit. I indulge. Everything in moderation is hard for me to digest in only one dose. Will my future persona allow to me follow a downward spiral to it's end, regenerate myself, race to the top, and ride it down again?
Three comments on some previous posts:
"An interesting (an elaborate) thought experiment, but having a human shaped body (shell for carrying one's mind and sensory input) is really pointless. It is a large, gawky, unstable design that we just happend to be burdened with."
Without argument I would like to express the extreme pleasure I recieve when viewing the aesthetic contours of an attractive woman. How do you nibble on a speherical ball? Thanks evolution, you've been great.
"first, i think transhumanity is fine, but it is a luxury of thought afforded to few."
I must confess my selfishness on this matter. I wish the elite (chosen by me of course) were the only ones given access to Primo creations. Ahhh . . . life would be great if the world was ruled by beautiful/intelligent Natashas and me.
"This technology is all great, but do we really want to live forever?"
Excellent question. Answer: Live forever and then decide. When you get bored, try and conquer the world. You'll probably be killed in the process.
--
Forgive me for typos, I'm an 8 year old doctorate student.
ciao,
P
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Re: Radical body design"Primo 3M+"
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Well, this kind of body, (being available in our current socio-cultural landscape), would mean that everyone would end-up looking the same.
For this to be avoided, our socio-cultural landscape would have to change first.
Secondly, i do not think people will want to totaly abandon their individuality.
We as 'individuals' are not just conscious personnalities, we are also bodies. Our bodies are the expression of our genes and are unique.
Our bodies carry a legacy of thousands of years, and they are our own.
I think transfering into a new body such as the primo, would take away a large piece of our intimacy, of our individuality.
I think people will want to improve and enhance themselves, but not at the expense of their physical individuality.
Being in the primo, would not be totally me. Because i am able to APPRECIATE the current body i have. It is the unique expression of my genes.
It is true that i would, as everyone, like to improve certain things and change certain things. But transfering to the Primo would be too radical.
We would probably want to improve, but KEEP our individual physical expression, our legacy, as well.
Also, DO NOT FORGET, that it is possible to appreciate 'Faults' and 'Defects' as well as Qualities.
And It is our Faults which shape us as well as our qualities. For example:
Would Picasso have been a genius artist if he had not had a depressive and envious personnality?
Would Napoleon have become possibly the Greatest Ruler and Emperor in the history of mankind and have managed to shape and conquer all of Europe, if he had not been Very small in size and weak?
Would Omimusha have become the Greatest ever Sumo Wrestler, if he had not been Overweight?
You see, it is also in overcoming our 'faults' that we can make them into qualities, and maybe impact the world in the process!
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another nightmare
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Go beyond the "wow", "gee whiz" stage, and really think about all those changes. Take each one of the bodily enhancements and examine it's dark side.
The best artists throughtout history did not require all these add-ons; and just adding add-ons, including a quadrillion synaptic brain will not give us better, kinder, more creative, human beings. Think of criminals with all these add-ons. And there will always be criminals. Human nature will not change with all these add-ons; it will just get squireelier.
The primo body seems to be most exciting for what Carl Gustave Jung called "sensation types"; swingers, etc.
Sadly, I hope we blow ourselves up with hrydrogen bombs before we entire a society teeming with these monstrous freaks.
Human history indicates that a primo society would be a tiered society, with the rich and powerful, including the mafia, getting all these enhancement "goodies?" while the rest of the population can go and drop dead, or be used as entertainment for the "primo" class of aristocrats.
Once again, it sounds good; but when you look closer at it ...
This would not be trans-humanism, but non-humanism, or inhumanism. |
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Re: "Primo (3M+) Posthuman - Pleasant Dreams vs. Nightmare
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Someone wrote: "Human history indicates that a primo society would be a tiered society, with the rich and powerful, including the mafia, getting all these enhancement "goodies?" while the rest of the population can go and drop dead, or be used as entertainment for the "primo" class of aristocrats."
A "Primo Posthuman" society would be diverse and fluid. Individuals interacting with transhumans and humans encouraging a sense of prosperity and collaboration, not a hegemony.
The system, policies, or practices of a Primo Posthuman culture would be based, primarily, on multiformity. Society advances on many levels and at different times and to assume that a hierachy of rich vs. poor is certainly evidence of retro bandits and backward movements attempting to promote fear of innovation and block progress.
A reply to this statement suggested wisely that TV is available to everyone at a very low cost. In downtown Los Angeles, for example, there appears to be more cell phones used by Hispanic day laborers than upper class black or white executives. This is a visual example of how products that seem to be purchased and used by a "privileged" subset of society, soon becomes available for all of society.
The aspect I appreciate most about the concept of Primo(3M+) Posthuman is that its values are in compatable with emotionally balanced social structures. Written examples of this are as follows:
- Error correction device rather than faulty recollection;
- Enlightened Transhumanity rather than negative emotions of jealousy and fear;
- Turbocharged optimism rather than corrosion caused by envy, irritability or depression; and
- Multiple viewpoints running in parallel rather a single-track awareness.
In that most of society's problems are caused by psychological/emotional imbalances triggering outbursts of anger which, in turn, cause much of the world's upheavals and affect personal and cultural peace.
Natasha Vita-More
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AHHHHHHHHHHH
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I stumbled on this web-site and article and was uniquely exilerated.
I worked very closely with the team leader for the Quantum computer project between Los Alamos National Lab's and UofI in Champaign/Urbana, and the only time I got this type of exileration was late in the night over coffee it was decided to use the stable coffe molocule to run tests on. [They were the most successful of all the previous test combined!!!].
I have read every word of the article as well as all the posted comments. Although I have many things to say to individual authors that posted, I will refrain. However, I do wish to state that I am pleasantly surprised at the high volume of negative comments to Natasha's idea. (Even one negative comment is to many for me. NOTE:I am not talking about the constructive criticism.)
It is a real shame that the big picture has been presented to society yet society at large can not seem to cope with it. They will gladly go and pay exorbitant prices ($3,000 - $5,000) for a single scan to determine whether cancer has attacked them. Many people will barely make that amount in an entire month. But, when many concepts are presented as an entire solution this same society seems to shake and quiver. Most it seems do not even relize that many of the products you present are actualy in the progress of being completed, others are being funded as we speak, and others are in the planning process. There are but a few that require additional technology, and even fewer that are strictly Sci-Fi.
I have had the oppurtunity to see first-hand devastation and death. (Natasha, you seem to mention the societal fringes in the Afghan desert.) I have worked as a Paramedic in Jerusalem during the rash of bombings from 98-99. Your cohesive concept would offer an oppurtunity for those victims to just pick up and continue their lives with a limited amount of daily struggle. They would simply up-load their memories and thinking patterns into a brand new Primo.
I truley applaude you. I wish that more individuals with the analytical processing power would present the "big picture" to the rest of society. This should be done in all areas of science, exploration, space, and human wellfare.
If it accomplishes one thing that would be to allow them the time it takes to cope with it when the full technology actually comes into play. Thus, eliminating the social problems we currently face with acceptance of new ideas and technology.
Thank you again. MMZ, EMT-B/D/P, CCFC, EMD, MBA |
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Re: AHHHHHHHHHHH
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Sure, ultimately, 'we' perhaps don't need more than one body, but in the interim, the separate bodies serve several valuable purposes.
1) To diversify experience. ex: It's hard to experience mercury's surface on Jupiter. And different forces may seek different subjective values within the range of what is objectively possible.
2) To break down chosen strategies for coping with adversity based on differing value assumptions to see which strategies are most rewarding. If X organism puts himself into too risky of a situation, at least it's not the only version of X out there, so he can die and hopefully beam his information back to a secure location before its lost for good.
3) Bodies may just be a way of creating experience that is subtly varied (other than just high-intensity power fluctuations). The experience is the mental interpretation of the physical thing, not the physical thing itself. A hundred minds having 100 different kinds of orgasm is thus likely to be more rewarding overall than the energy of 100 orgasms all being sent to one mind (even if that mind was powerful enough to interpret it multiple ways).
4) To eliminate unconstructive thinking voluntarily, if you are not attached to the mind doing the unconstructive thinking, you can just leave.
These assumptions may be wrong ultimately, because I may not be able to comprehend the capacity of a superior (in the extreme) mind to appreciate subtlety, and designate mental processes to deal with it. However, the goal of distribution pays a big dividend as the initial way to begin down the path: it distributes power which is INCREDIBLY likely to enhance survival of varying advanced minds. This also decreases the ability of one mind to hold itself (and thus all of the others) back (with authoritarian malarkey).
Ex: What if Radical religious ideas manifested themselves in a group mind? That would be unnacceptable for the other more logical minds involved.
For now, lets try not to let the authoritarians become the supreme controllers of the technology. Let's encourage freemarket access to the new technology.
We can always consolidate later.
-J |
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