Origin > The Singularity > Is the universe a quantum computer?
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    Is the universe a quantum computer?
by   Seth Lloyd

Perhaps the universe is a very large quantum logic circuit, says Seth Lloyd in response to Edge publisher/editor John Brockman's request to futurists to pose "hard-edge" questions that "render visible the deeper meanings of our lives, redefine who and what we are."


Originally published January 2002 at Edge. Published on KurzweilAI.net January 21, 2002. Read Ray Kurzweil's Edge question here.

The universe is quantum mechanical, and its dynamics can be simulated precisely and efficiently using quantum information processing. The amount of quantum computation required to perform this simulation is finite and has been calculated. Consequently, there is no obvious way to distinguish the universe from a very large quantum logic circuit.

Copyright © 2002 by Edge Foundation, Inc.



www.edge.org

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Quantum circuit Universe
posted on 03/13/2002 12:49 PM by karovi@balchik.net

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If "the" universe is a simulation performed by quantum informational processing device,i.e. "quantum logical circuit",than are there any constraints upon the simulation to simulate further sub-"realities"? How many quantum simulations could we put one in another and how big could be the more "inner" simulation compared with the "simulating" simulation.
Otherway to ask the same question is-Are there any termodinamical barriers in front the quantum calculators/simulators?I mean-borders of energy needed and complexity of the sim-product.May "our" universe sustain quantum simulations bigger than the "our" universe itself?
Where is the top and the bottom of such "simulation tower"?

Sounds like "Turtles all the way down"
posted on 06/02/2002 8:35 PM by joesixpack@gobills.net

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It's not toally implausible that each and every particle in our "universe" contains its own "universes" or that our universe is the part of another.

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 03/13/2002 1:18 PM by tomaz@techemail.com

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Per definition the Universe is a large quantum computer. No doubt about.

There are two very important sub points to this.

-- That nothing else, than this computation is going on. That there is no "juice" of any kind.

-- That a level deeper, on the lowest level, this computation MIGHT be classical.

Thomas

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 03/13/2002 5:22 PM by karovi@balchik.net

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You mean this quantum circuit-the universe calculates only it`s own processes and thus simulates exactly itself ? No multiverse?
And from that I`ve heard already the might of the quantum type logic is enormouse compared with the classic one-a classic computer to simulate the universe will need its matter complexity,energetic value and mass-quantum computer for the same purpose I thought will manage only with several dozens of qubits.
Please explain me-why classical bottom for univeres`s quantum sistem?
And my general question- the oposition between the two (mere) models- continuous and discontinued,classic-quantum,analog-digital...
isn`t it just a matter of private cases in single metodology that could work simultaneously with the both concepts (something like "Quantum gravity" in epistemology)...? Such meta-metodology will make obsolete,or exactly matter of artistic expresion,the construction of various theories for acheiving one and same target-like different vehicles carring to one destination- matter of choise of devise and trajectory.
Generally I believe that the destinction between those categories will disappear after some breakthrough in mats&methodology.

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 03/14/2002 1:19 PM by tomaz@techemail.com

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> processes and thus simulates exactly itself ? No multiverse?

No multiverse at all. If there is a multiverse - I would call it - the Universe.

> why classical bottom for univeres`s quantum sistem?

Since Bohm came with the deterministic QM - which works - we can find a classical program, which exactly simulate the world.

> continuous and discontinued

Continuity is an illusion. Continuity of matter, space, time ... anything - is just a mistake of the past.

- Thomas

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 03/16/2002 2:03 AM by Blue

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When I play cards with my friends I usually have winning streaks as well as losing streaks. I have played with lucky people who seem to have luck all the time, and I know that it cannot be merely good playing or psychology, unless of course their subconscience is telling them that they should keep betting or fold. I do not know if taking risks is actually a bad thing, then I think maybe I should not even play cards at all. Does the universe offer us cards to play or is it just pure luck. I am torn between the two. I have chosen to believe that karma must deal the cards, and that we have an ultimate choice but not always apparent. Same with fortune cards I guess.

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 03/16/2002 4:27 AM by Blue Oyster Boy

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The universe is a quantum computer; but not a perpetual-motion machine, not really. It is kept alive by thinking entities such as ourselves. To take a guess at what really goes on would cross Ockham's razor. Buddha would not agree that it is any type of organized order such as we perceive; then again who can prove Zen, maybe all we can do is have feelings about what it just might be, and this would flounder into mysticsm, which is a dead end in our scientific beliefs. SETI? Maybe. agaon Ockham's Razor. What is great is like the small maybe a logical fallacy like division/composition. The fact that we seek order ourselves (most people) might mean that we are god-like beings in ourselves, but that can't be proved. If the universe is a machine or computer like system, then it is one that seems indifferent to us most of the time. That is why I approve of Ray's conceptions of technologies making things better; he is a great man because he personally gives me faith; not that I bow down and worship him like a saint or a god, no one is really worthy in my eyes of that. I have found that human psychology can be one of those things that help us to understand. Karl Jaspers says that if it cannot be disproven then it cannot be discounted. I believe that there is room for spirituality in our technology driven age. We need to praise technological advances as well as the humanitarian needs that will be required for the general happiness and well being of mankind. So in summary if the universe is a quantum computer then the software is that which counts in the end. I wish I could erase some of my personal history that torments me. Beware of the software that you become!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the universe is a quantum computer, then maybe it would be good if we ever reach this singularity that everyone's talking about; and maybe the glitches will eventually be ironed out.

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 03/16/2002 4:45 AM by tomaz@techemail.com

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> If the universe is a quantum computer, then maybe it would be good if we ever reach this singularity that everyone's talking about; and maybe the glitches will eventually be ironed out.

It's all about that. Or - putting it correctly - we are programmed by the Evolution, to do just that. To trigger the Singularity to fulfil our deepest aspirations. This far the program has unveiled.

- Thomas

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 05/05/2002 2:44 AM by shaleadude@hotmail.com

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I'm convinced that the singularity will emerge. I just hope it likes us...ha...ha... Quantum computer? Yeah, but non deterministic...a toroid, circulating within and along its borders, that which is circulating...the "elements of circulation" being circulating toroids themselves...every "thing" a whorl an eddie of energy existing as an epicenter of organized energy but for a moment then dissipating, transmuting into the next and then another. The fractal universe... And so the singularity gives us everything we want...the same dynamics will always exist. It'll never be enough. We'll always want more and we'll always die. I'm not saying thats bad its just that if you can't take it in perspective you won't be happy...you;ll suffer. No matter what if it (the singularity)develops the ability to change with universe or to even control it it will have to lose its identity to become the next thing for it will never be able to be completely separate, completely singular for it is in UNI-verse with us...that in itself is a form of death. I guess my point is that I don't have a really closely defined point. I just see it as a process a grand process...a mystery, like a deep dark forest or floating down a really powerful river to the sea or like living in a storm cell a hurricane...you never know where your going...not really...you can have a pretty good idea but the fun is in not knowing and living on the edge without fear...

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 06/02/2002 8:46 AM by trait70426@aol.com

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I have been thinking about the concept of "resultant complexity spheres." Life is a resultant complexity that developed in the solar system. The singularity appears to be a resultant complexity sphere which will spring forth out of life. What will be the resultant complexity sphere that blossoms asymptotically out of the singularity?

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 06/02/2002 1:16 PM by tomaz@techemail.com

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The Singularity1, the Singularity2, the Singularity3, the Singularity4 ...

I don't know how far. But we may call them all together - The Singularity.

- Thomas

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 03/16/2002 5:34 PM by Blue Oyster Boy

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When I said Karl Jaspers, I meant Karl Popper, who you may know is the scientific philospher who stated his falsifyability notion as a criterium of gathering scientific data.

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 06/15/2002 10:44 PM by thoughts@reflection-idea.com

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I've had similar experiences. And an anecdote about an experiment, and maybe a way to get some luck to rub off on yourself. And thoughts about karma.

I was going to a computer conference in Las Vegas. I knew I would lose gambling, so I looked for 'lucky' people at work. I told them if they gave me their money, I would mix it with mine, and I promised to either double it, or lose it all.

So I had $100 in my gambling pocket. Blackjack slowly ate away at it each night. We had an hour before we had to leave. I had about $15 left, and I remembered I'd promised to lose it all.

Back to the blackjack table, but now making bigger bets. Won, doubled my bets won, now betting $25 chips, and in a few quick hands I had $200.

Second anecdote - did it again. In Australia but for one night, told my story to some co-workers, slowly lost our combined money all night. Had a few bucks left. On my way out, passing a roulette table, put it all on a single number, it hit 36-1, giving me just about exactly twice what I began with.

Interesting karma if you will. I know I'll lose (be unlucky), and I do by myself. But it was important for me to pull off a stunt like this, and I won (got lucky) when I had other people's money in my pocket.

Dennis
www.reflection-idea.com

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 06/15/2002 11:00 PM by thoughts@reflection-idea.com

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More on the gambling thread and karma and winning an losing streaks.

My wife and I got addicted to a dice game called Cosmic Wimpout for a while. Yes there's some strategy, but winning is mostly about who gets lucky.

The strange thing was, though, and maybe it was just analyzing after the fact, it seemed as if who ever wanted to win more, won. We seemed to be able to sense who the winner/loser was.

Both being logical sorts, we kept a long time log of our scores. And total life time scores. To see if the dice were rolling more in her favor or mine. Absolutely random over time, and the difference in our life time scores was just noise.

Yet the dice seemed to follow real patterns in our lives.

From Reflection:
"The mystic and the scientist meet at the dice table. The mystic claims to be in touch with the rolling of the dice. The scientist shows the dice follow normal statistical patterns. Neither understands or respects the other, yet both are right when understood in light of the 100-100 proposition of Reflection. The scientist understands the one hundred percent responsibility of the dice as an explanation of the outcome of the game; the mystic understands the one hundred percent responsibility of the player."

Dennis
www.reflection-idea.com

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 05/22/2002 11:52 AM by tucci@ar-rtiste.com

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For a parody of quantum computing, see:
www.ar-tiste.com/
qcomp_onion/jan2002/front_page.htm

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 05/22/2002 1:27 PM by tomaz@techemail.com

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Spamer, go away!

- Thomas

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 06/07/2002 8:08 AM by DMARKSVR@AOL.COM

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Is the universe a quantum computer? wouldn't the answer almost have to be yes? Are not quantum processes the the underlying foundation for all other processes in the universe? The foundation of the universe and reality is in quantum processes, these processes govern the behavior/interaction of energy/matter(which is all the universe is composed of), so these processes are basically instructions for manipulating information, thats all a computer program is, so if quantum processes are the foundation or code for a program, don't u need a computer to run the program? But if the universe is a computer(quantum or otherwise) then what is its function? I could be mistakin here, but would not ever increasing complexity result in a consciencness (or however its spelled)? and hasn't it already done so in us(and possibly others)? so then what could the function of this computer be? It must atleast have the function of maintaining itself, so that it might have atleast some hope of actually performing its primary function, but what is its ultimate purpose or primary function? I can only think of one possible answer, and that answer is simply to figure itself out(Yes i do watch alot of Scifi), atleast thats the only possibility i see, but if i'm right and the increasing complexity of the universe is an attempt by that vary universe to know itself, isn't it self defeating, because with every jump in complexity the universe would be more difficult to understand, and would require more complexity to understand past complexity, not unlike the difficulties in reaching light speed. But there is one side affect of this process which is life. Maybe i don't understand quantum physics but in the quantum world don't all things exist as tendencies or probablities, and they are not actually real or made to be one or the other until observed, like schrodinger's cat, its neither dead or alive, but both until the box is opened, opening the box creates reality, reality is simply our perceptions. We create reality by observing it. These perceptions help us to better know ourselves and our universe, but we cannot know everything, change is the only constant and because change is constant the aquisition of knowledge would have to be constant to keep up, but there is still no hope of knowing all, so we find our selves in the same perdicament as the universe, which i suppose is not wholly unexpected, and is even somewhat poetic because we are it, and it is us. So that only leaves us with the journy, and in order to make a journy one cannot remain static, thus the universe must not remain static or it would be un able to maintain itself AND have any hope to accomplish its goal of knowing itself. So it is the journy that stustains it, completing the journy would make it static, effectively killing it, so i don't know about you but that only leaves me with one conclusion, and i hate to sound cliche here but maybe indeed that is all that is important, the journey, but yeah its a computer....isn't everything?
;)
Dave

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 06/09/2002 5:55 AM by tomaz@techemail.com

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The Holographic Principle is asserting that.

A screen - let say 1 m from you - is a flat quantum computer indistinguishable from the deep space behind it.

Now, what are the rules on the screen? Wolframic? Very likely.


- Thomas

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 06/14/2002 5:18 AM by tribes4u@insightbb.com

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The or a singularity is. Its what comes befor a one or zero i believe. Like a potential that defies definition. If our universe is a process that process can and will be eventually be terminated.
Or maybe im just retarded?

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 02/13/2005 5:56 PM by danqueens2005

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I agree that it is pretty obvious that the Universe is a quantum computer. Think about it from programmer's perspective. If you create a program, is there anything that you can't do? Well, there are laws in nature that can't be broke. But suppose you could if you say, traveled really fast. Suppose you could freeze time just like in a video game. This would most likely stop movement also, but does it stop reality. No. The only difference is that whatever it is that takes one moment on to the next is not on. It is 0 instead of 1. What if it was 0 and 1 at the same time. Therefor if the only reason that you are where you are when you are is because you are observing that. The mind is always thinking just like the sun comes up at the same time everyday. This movement is constant, just like our existence is constant. Every location you ever where is relevent to everything else. Given a time and place, say New York City, June 1, 2000 @ 1:00 p.m., in your computer program you could put yourself there. Whatever happened and will happen will not affect you, even if you went back 200 years and killed your great great grandfather. The fact is that you exist in your mind and in spacetime, so your parents might never be born in that realm, but in another realm that are. I just want to know how to stop time, take a step, start time, and to all percievers I simply moved from point A to point B without taking any time, thus there was really no movement. I want to be in two places at once. Don't you?

MIT Hosting Quantum Computing Toga Party
posted on 06/14/2002 6:37 PM by tucci@ar-tiste.com

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A press release from MIT, just received here at Reuters:
http://www.ar-tiste.com/
qcomp_onion/MIT-TogaParty.htm






Re: MIT Hosting Quantum Computing Toga Party
posted on 06/15/2002 2:49 AM by tomaz@techemail.com

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I've never said, the spam is entirely bad...

Don't go away!

;))

- Thomas

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 11/03/2003 12:26 AM by analog57

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It could be that the universe is a logic circuit that is a closed feedback loop. The infinite tower of turtles would no longer be necessary.

There is a duality of physics for a circle of radius R and 1/R . Objects and the interstellar space within the galaxies shrink in tandem, while the intergalactic space shrinks at a slower rate, which gives the local perception of expanding intergalactic spacetime. It would really be a self contained "logic loop".

[<-[->[<-[->[U]<-]->]<-]->]

So the boundary for the universe is that it has no boundary. Universal resonance.
Very similar to the transactional interpretation of quantum mechanics, but also different.

Why not describe Einstein's equation as a rule that tells the geometry of space how to evolve as function of time? Lorentzian manifolds M, diffeomorphic to R x S, where the manifold S represents space, and t, an element of R, represents time. So spacetime is sliced into instants of time as an arbitrary choice, or possibly units of Planck's constant.

F: M---> R x S

Spacetime becomes quantized or "sliced up" but that could be what nature really does. According to relativity, an objects position and momentum can only be defined with respect to a another object. Yet the universe as a whole has no frame of reference outside of itself, so how can its momentum be defined? It can only be defined with reference to itself. Worldlines fill up spacetime and the criss crossing of world lines mark events beyond the need for coordinate systems or coordinates. Points in spacetime are given the name "events" so there is a coordinate independence.

The geometric view of physics means that the laws of physics are the same in every Lorentz reference system. Local Lorentz invariance. But since the universe has no exterior reference frame, and it must refer to itself, its world line intersects with itself. This quantized-evolution of spacetime dictated by GR and QM, means that the world line of the past intersects with the world lines of the present, for the universe. A geometric stacking of space like slices, parameterized by t, The universe is a function of itself. Spacetime becomes compressed. As the time evolution proceeds in the thermodynamic direction of t, the space like sheets continually increase in density. The information storage of space time.


Is it possible to also derive Einstein's field equation strictly in terms of quantum mechanical operators? using n-dimensional cross sections of cotangent vector spaces? Near a massive object M, the *isobar* cross sections increase in density, as wavefunction density gradients?

Two compression waves, in phase, with the same amplitude and wavelength moving in opposite directions, become resonating "standing waves":

As the entropy continues to increase in the universe, and if the universe is a closed system, the entropy may be considered to be the interpretation of a "damping force". This damping force may also be one possible solution to the dark matter enigma.

Solve the Schwarzschild solution for the entire universe, since the universe can be postulated to be a closed system with nothing outside itself. The condition of "nothingness" leads one to ask "What are the properties of nothingness?" Of course there are no measurable properties, but nothingness in itself must be a type of massless solid. A condition that has no distance - metric scales. In other words, there is no outside to the universe, no measurable border between something and nothing.







Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 11/03/2003 10:07 PM by claireatcthisspace

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yup, it had to happen, he follwed me here aswell (Russell)--~.> Why don't you fly over to my house and post your text on my fridge?

(in humour)(UK humour)


Claire

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 09/12/2006 3:49 PM by mindx back-on-track

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back-on-track

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 01/05/2007 9:23 PM by Agathon

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Everybody is really speculating well in here as the nature of our maximalistic mind..

Why we are always obliged to assume that no INTELLIGENT BEING OR THE GROUP OF INTELLIGENT BEINGS are just making experiments on the vacuum of universe where everything is possible..

Anything could have happened..

No principles .. no formulas .. no laws are acceptable in the "NIGHTMARE OF CONTINUITY " from MICRO to MACRO dimensions .. creating and changing the nature at it's around.. at different scales...

We have recently found out that there's actually INFINITE number of sub atomic particles down there.. it just splinters and splinters.. leptons.. baryons..bozones.. quanta's.. and so on..
and even string theory is emerging as the theory of everything..
that at trillionth ..trillionth times trillionth level of the millimeter there's a string connecting anything and creating anything as it whirls and moves..
but it's not to say that it's the end of Micro Continuity.. no there can also be particles of that string also..

So this goes down and down.. shrinks like no ever..

and the MACRO scales is going in the same way.. we first were aware that we were not in the center of the world that we were revolving around sun not the sun around us,., and then galaxies.. universes .. multiverse.. I will not wonder tomorrow if this scales goes as HYPER.. MEGA.. TERA.. QUADDRILLIA.. VERSES..

Immanuel Kant great german philosopher said that our minds speculate when we get pass the point after which we simply don't have enough data or food to talk about..

Briefly.. it is like this

----Micro infinite continuum where things ..in particle formed stuffs go by and replicate itselves..may be who know there could be INFINITE NUMBER OF HIGHLY SUPERINTELLIGENT CIVILIZATIONS WHO COULD BE CREATING US AND EVERYTHING.. HAVING LIVED ALREADY THE TIMESPAN OF MANY TRILLION CENTURIES..may be we are just mere Primitive probes of their experiments.. and that we are just living in the middle scale universe or set of universes.. without realizing Trillionth of other set of univeres HIGH ABOVE our SCALES ..

so I would like to say that to be able to learn and investigate all this we need SUPER FAST COMPUTATIONAL POWER at the level of quantum mechanics.. which could process trillionth of bits per second and exactly calculate the possibilities of our speculations and the TRUE NATURE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL, ONTOLOGICAL,OBJECTIVE NATURE THE VERY EXISTENCE.. that our minds are trapped in with great variety of speculations...

So we gotta move..

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 01/05/2007 10:07 PM by extrasense

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No, Universe is not a Quantum Computer.

ES

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 01/06/2007 3:40 PM by EyeOrderChaos

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Thank god, cuz if Reality were running on Windows.. we'd be plagued with bugs and due for a reboot...hey, maybe THAT'S what "Revelations" is talking about!

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 01/07/2007 3:42 AM by extrasense

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Windows screen is an example of virtual reality interface, which we have so used to, that never even notice it!

e:)s

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 01/08/2007 4:57 PM by robertkernodle

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Yes, ... the universe is a computer according to Seth Lloyd.

So, it must be so.

Hail Seth! Oh mighty Seth!

He seems like a cool dude, actually. I wonder what he REALLY thinks in his most private conceptions.

RK

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 02/15/2007 10:09 PM by 2duniverse

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The universe could be a quantum computer if it is a bianry two-dimensional system consisting of a space-time dimension and a timeless dimension. Physists say subatomic particles have super position. I say they exist in a timeless dimension that allows for infinite possibility. In this system the universe clicks on and off.
I came up with this idea while thinking about quantum entanglement. If you send entangled particles off in opposite directions and change the spin of one, the other particle's spin changes instantly i.e. faster than light. I thought this could be explained using a 2D universe model with a space-time dimension that is connected to a timeless dimension. When the first particles spin is changed in our space-time dimension, the timeless dimension is informed. Because the connecting dimension is timeless, information is instantly communicated. The entangled particle receives this information and reappears in our space-time dimension with same spin as its partner.
So how does this system transfer information back and forth. We can't measure and do not notice that the universe is clicking back and forth. So I thought of the Plank scale. I knew there was a Plank length and a Planck time, so I surmised that there would be a Planck Space-time.
The exchange takes place in Planck space-time.
Why do so many systems in our universe seem to show the influence of quantum probability? At the Planck scale, there a quantum probability gates between the space-time dimension and timeless dimension. These gates temper infinite possibility to create a reality that seems to flow but is actually discontinuous.
If the universe is a the type of system if suggest it would be a quantum computer. This universe would allow our space-time dimension to grow forever at ever increasing speeds using the potential of the timeless dimensions. Essential our space-time dimension would be a parasite on the timeless dimension.

Re: Is the universe a quantum computer?
posted on 02/16/2007 11:29 AM by extrasense

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Since "quantum computer" is oximiron, the Universe can not be it.

eS